Blade Strike

General stuff that gets thrown about when Helicopter Pilots shoot the Breeze.
zipp
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Blade Strike

Postby zipp » Wed Feb 17 2021, 10:33

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Twistgrip
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Re: Blade Strike

Postby Twistgrip » Wed Feb 17 2021, 12:12

They mast have been too close.... :shock:
"You can watch things happen, you can make things happen or you can wonder what happened"
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Re: Blade Strike

Postby godfather007 » Wed Feb 17 2021, 12:24

Ahh...The Small price to pay for our freedom.
No one was hurt. Great recovery by the pilot after a incident. (Positioning over a Moving/unpredictable object whilst inserting crews...)
Great to see no ADF Personal or Public got injured.
And thanks to all the ADF folk for your service!!!
Thank fu(k for the ADF training/commitment to protect our country.
Too the sad Whiteness bowing down to the media for 5 seconds of fame. You would be crying worse if some real life issue struck our pressure world... shame on you for being a winger in front of a camera.
Don’t forget that in the old days, we were under attack from midget submarines and small planes in the exact same location.
WOW.. the new world we live in and most take it for granted. (Morons!)
Work hard, dream and set goals but be prepared for the outcome...
You may or may not not like It.
In saying this, there is always an option.
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skypig
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Re: Blade Strike

Postby skypig » Wed Feb 17 2021, 13:36

Yes, as mentioned above, a very small price paid.
Well done all.

These guys/girls were not on a joy flight, or practicing debating. They were training for war. Not always risk free.

If I’m ever taken hostage on a ship, these are the people I want to see. ASAP.

Thank you for your service.
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Re: Blade Strike

Postby Wannabe60Driver » Thu Feb 18 2021, 00:38

Maritime interdiction is the gold standard of aviation special operations and the Holsworthy crowd are world-class.

As the saying goes: fight like you train and train like you fight.

Very grateful this happened on a training evolution and thanks for your service ladies and gents.
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Re: Blade Strike

Postby Twistgrip » Thu Feb 18 2021, 14:17

Gold standard? Sorry I don’t agree.
The operation seems rather benign looking at the footage. At the end of the day look out your window clear your rotor and tail, be responsible for your machine and don’t rely on your crewy all the time, it’s your ship your commanding after all. Firefighting, SAR and EMS crews do this on a routine basis day in day out without too much fuss, fanfare or media attention. thankfully ended well.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/black-hawk-at-the-centre-of-the-drama-over-sydney-harbour/vi-BB1dMQK5
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hand in pants
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Re: Blade Strike

Postby hand in pants » Thu Feb 18 2021, 23:36

Typical media coverage, "could have been so much worse". Such a stupid comment from a so called journalist.

And I agree with Twistgrip on this.
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Re: Blade Strike

Postby Wannabe60Driver » Fri Feb 19 2021, 01:13

Twistgrip wrote:Gold standard? Sorry I don’t agree.
The operation seems rather benign looking at the footage. At the end of the day look out your window clear your rotor and tail, be responsible for your machine and don’t rely on your crewy all the time, it’s your ship your commanding after all. Firefighting, SAR and EMS crews do this on a routine basis day in day out without too much fuss, fanfare or media attention. thankfully ended well.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/black-hawk-at-the-centre-of-the-drama-over-sydney-harbour/vi-BB1dMQK5


I don’t have your hours on the controls but I do know a thing or two about planning maritime interdiction ops and fastroping out of helos. I can assure you that maritime interdiction via helo IS the gold standard that CT teams worldwide train for even if the guys and girls at TAG East got it wrong on this occasion.

Their int analyst would have given the aircrew and operators very detailed specs on that ship and highlighted risks such as masts and wires so I have no idea how this went wrong but I’m guessing it was a case of the pilot’s attention being too focused on comms with the crewy re dropping the operators and disconnecting the fast rope which happens only a second before he/she clips the antenna hanging off the comms mast.

Either way, lucky the 60 has disposable blade tips designed for exactly this reason. Fingers crossed the ADF returns to the latest version of this awesome bird across the entire fleet.
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Re: Blade Strike

Postby Vortexringshark » Fri Feb 19 2021, 07:22

Wannabe60Driver wrote:
Twistgrip wrote:Gold standard? Sorry I don’t agree.
The operation seems rather benign looking at the footage. At the end of the day look out your window clear your rotor and tail, be responsible for your machine and don’t rely on your crewy all the time, it’s your ship your commanding after all. Firefighting, SAR and EMS crews do this on a routine basis day in day out without too much fuss, fanfare or media attention. thankfully ended well.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/black-hawk-at-the-centre-of-the-drama-over-sydney-harbour/vi-BB1dMQK5


I don’t have your hours on the controls but I do know a thing or two about planning maritime interdiction ops and fastroping out of helos. I can assure you that maritime interdiction via helo IS the gold standard that CT teams worldwide train for even if the guys and girls at TAG East got it wrong on this occasion.

Their int analyst would have given the aircrew and operators very detailed specs on that ship and highlighted risks such as masts and wires so I have no idea how this went wrong but I’m guessing it was a case of the pilot’s attention being too focused on comms with the crewy re dropping the operators and disconnecting the fast rope which happens only a second before he/she clips the antenna hanging off the comms mast.

Either way, lucky the 60 has disposable blade tips designed for exactly this reason. Fingers crossed the ADF returns to the latest version of this awesome bird across the entire fleet.


I'm a big fan of the 60 but it seems a bit of a waste to ditch a whole fleet of MRH. Other than terrible supply issues for parts what's wrong with them?
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Re: Blade Strike

Postby Wannabe60Driver » Fri Feb 19 2021, 09:55

Not going to comment on what’s wrong with them but there’s a reason SOF kept their 60s. The writing is on the wall re all MRH/NH90s being binned in favour of Black Hawks across Navy and Army. We should never have sold the old airframes when we could have easily upgraded the engines and avionics.
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Re: Blade Strike

Postby Vortexringshark » Fri Feb 19 2021, 18:08

Wannabe60Driver wrote:Not going to comment on what’s wrong with them but there’s a reason SOF kept their 60s. The writing is on the wall re all MRH/NH90s being binned in favour of Black Hawks across Navy and Army. We should never have sold the old airframes when we could have easily upgraded the engines and avionics.

The rumors I'm hearing is SOF were never going to accept the MRH because it wasn't a Black Hawk rather than any real capability issue with them. Other countries seem to be able to run them in the SOF role fine. You sound like you might be a bit closer to the source though and may be able to shed some light on this.
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Re: Blade Strike

Postby hand in pants » Fri Feb 19 2021, 22:20

Wannabe, your comment regarding the pilots attention being on comms is a bit far fetched. Even a bad pilot is going to fly the machine first, comms second. Especially when they are that close to an obstacle. And don’t those operations use two pilots. I mean, the mast was right there on the flying pilots side.
Can’t we just leave this at the fact the pilot buggered it up. This does happen, military DO make mistakes, plenty of them. People trying to spin this into hero’s doing a difficult job doesn’t help. They were training. The fact that they picked a bad location to do the training doesn’t matter. I mean, in Sydney harbour in the middle of the day. A real silly move, look at me, look at me, opps, look away, look away, nothing to see here. Now they just look silly.
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Re: Blade Strike

Postby Wannabe60Driver » Sat Feb 20 2021, 01:55

Vortexringshark wrote:
Wannabe60Driver wrote:Not going to comment on what’s wrong with them but there’s a reason SOF kept their 60s. The writing is on the wall re all MRH/NH90s being binned in favour of Black Hawks across Navy and Army. We should never have sold the old airframes when we could have easily upgraded the engines and avionics.

The rumors I'm hearing is SOF were never going to accept the MRH because it wasn't a Black Hawk rather than any real capability issue with them. Other countries seem to be able to run them in the SOF role fine. You sound like you might be a bit closer to the source though and may be able to shed some light on this.


Several NATO SOF aviation support units run the 90 but our guys and girls train more with the Yanks so commonality makes sense. Likewise we had a situation where we were simultaneously looking for a new SOF helo and a replacement for the Navy’s six 90s that offered sustainment commonality with the Seahawk Romeos.

Google ‘Plan Corella’ re the idea of leasing machines in the interim.

To quote an article that disappeared only hours after it was posted: “ While the MRH 90 excels in speed, range, capacity, and endurance, there are believed to be ongoing issues with suitable door gun mounts and positions, rappelling rope points, and operational integration with allied forces.”

“ There are broader capability benefits to the ADF by enhancing interoperability with US DoD platforms and services. This is achieved through shared technology roadmaps, personnel exchanges, and better understanding requirements for next-generation systems. For rotary platforms, this is highlighted by technology transfer for manned-unmanned teaming (MUM-T) concepts, and enhanced data links to deliver improved battlespace awareness.”

Couple that with the fact the ADF recently hired someone to sit in Airbus’s Brisbane office to document issues and the only conclusion is that the 90 will go the way of the Tiger.
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Re: Blade Strike

Postby CyclicH145 » Sat Feb 20 2021, 04:01

pop;
Last edited by CyclicH145 on Sat Feb 20 2021, 07:31, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Blade Strike

Postby Vortexringshark » Sat Feb 20 2021, 07:05

Several NATO SOF aviation support units run the 90 but our guys and girls train more with the Yanks so commonality makes sense. Likewise we had a situation where we were simultaneously looking for a new SOF helo and a replacement for the Navy’s six 90s that offered sustainment commonality with the Seahawk Romeos.

Google ‘Plan Corella’ re the idea of leasing machines in the interim.

To quote an article that disappeared only hours after it was posted: “ While the MRH 90 excels in speed, range, capacity, and endurance, there are believed to be ongoing issues with suitable door gun mounts and positions, rappelling rope points, and operational integration with allied forces.”

“ There are broader capability benefits to the ADF by enhancing interoperability with US DoD platforms and services. This is achieved through shared technology roadmaps, personnel exchanges, and better understanding requirements for next-generation systems. For rotary platforms, this is highlighted by technology transfer for manned-unmanned teaming (MUM-T) concepts, and enhanced data links to deliver improved battlespace awareness.”

Couple that with the fact the ADF recently hired someone to sit in Airbus’s Brisbane office to document issues and the only conclusion is that the 90 will go the way of the Tiger.[/quote]

Commonality with allies is a valid reason, especially if you're planning on piggybacking on their next generation stuff.

The tactical level reasons seem light though. Essentially, between what you said and what you quoted, was that it out performs the Black Hawk in almost every way but the ADF can't seem to get it to do a role other nations already have it doing. It seems to me like the team introducing it to the SOF world just wanted new Black Hawks and have looked for a way out. I don't think those strategic level reasons for ditching it would carry as much weight if the ADF had, paraphrasing your quote, a more capable helicopter in the role. Also my understanding was the new SOF helo was a smaller frame like a little bird or 145.

Don't get me wrong Airbus is a cluster, NHI makes any modification difficult and the full integrated NH90 system makes any minor tweaks to the system near impossible but I don't think the platform itself is the problem.
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Re: Blade Strike

Postby Helical » Sat Feb 20 2021, 12:54

For all the MRH haters...

I would just like to point out that (according to wiki) the MRH-90 rotor diameter is 6cm less than the Blackhawk, so may not have hit the mast in the first place :lol:
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Re: Blade Strike

Postby Capt Slong » Sat Feb 20 2021, 21:19

The Blackhawk also isn’t prone to lighting bush fires and giving away your position... :lol:
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Re: Blade Strike

Postby hojoos » Fri Jul 16 2021, 20:01

Great to see no ADF Personal or Public got injured.
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Re: Blade Strike

Postby CyclicH145 » Sat Jul 17 2021, 04:17

Helical wrote:For all the MRH haters...

I would just like to point out that (according to wiki) the MRH-90 rotor diameter is 6cm less than the Blackhawk, so may not have hit the mast in the first place :lol:


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Re: Blade Strike

Postby CyclicH145 » Sat Jul 17 2021, 04:18

Capt Slong wrote:The Blackhawk also isn’t prone to lighting bush fires and giving away your position... :lol:


Neither is the Apache everyone seems to think it’s the best thing since sliced bread!

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