income protection, death & tpd

Loss of licence, TPD, loss of income and more.
Old Mate
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income protection, death & tpd

Postby Old Mate » Wed Mar 2 2022, 09:57

G'day,

As the title suggests, has anyone recently been able to gain insurance for the above at a competitive rate? I've currently only got Super fund insurance which is pretty ordinary.

thanks in advance
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Enjoying It
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Re: income protection, death & tpd

Postby Enjoying It » Wed Mar 2 2022, 21:34

Have a look into joining AFAP, then you can join the Australian Air Pilots Mutual Benefit Fund.

It comes with a lot of extra benefits we all hope to never use but you never know what might happen.
Skeeter
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Re: income protection, death & tpd

Postby Skeeter » Tue Mar 21 2023, 03:52

Any advice for a loss of licence insurance other then the MBF?
Chopper Guy
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Re: income protection, death & tpd

Postby Chopper Guy » Tue Mar 21 2023, 04:02

Old Mate wrote:G'day,

As the title suggests, has anyone recently been able to gain insurance for the above at a competitive rate? I've currently only got Super fund insurance which is pretty ordinary.

thanks in advance


Hey Mate

John Ellis (www.pilotlifeinsurance.com.au) was able to get me life & trauma insurance...

Income protection wasn't available, but that's where loss of medical insurance steps in.

CG
Matt Nielsen
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Re: income protection, death & tpd

Postby Matt Nielsen » Tue Mar 21 2023, 09:48

Other than the MBF?

Of course, I'm deeply biased but have a good look at the details... I'm happy to be corrected and whilst it's not a perfect fit for everyone, there's a lot of upsides to the MBF.

Get in early, stay for your career, get all your money back when you retire.... run by volunteer pilots and doesn't make profits for shareholders. Even better... get involved as a Member or Director and help run a scheme 'by pilots, for pilots'.

:wink:
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havick
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Re: income protection, death & tpd

Postby havick » Tue Mar 21 2023, 13:51

Have heard from pilots that needed to exercise the MBF fund how obstructionist they were to pay out. But I guess any insurance is.
"You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel."
Matt Nielsen
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Re: income protection, death & tpd

Postby Matt Nielsen » Tue Mar 21 2023, 15:05

Oh... it's pretty rigorous as it well should be! Ultimately the best outcome is always for a pilot to return to work where possible.

With benefits up to $800K for loss of licence, I think most would think that it's reasonable that it is approached carefully. It's other Members' money after all.

For context though, in the 2022 Member year, the MBF paid just under $8.4 million in benefits for permanent loss of licence, $2 million in monthly payments and a million in death cover. Additionally, $1.7 million was returned to retiring Members via refunds of contributions.

I'd encourage anyone considering a product of this type to call the office for some information.
Dazedandconfused
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Re: income protection, death & tpd

Postby Dazedandconfused » Tue Mar 21 2023, 23:08

Matt Nielsen wrote:Other than the MBF?

Of course, I'm deeply biased but have a good look at the details... I'm happy to be corrected and whilst it's not a perfect fit for everyone, there's a lot of upsides to the MBF.

Get in early, stay for your career, get all your money back when you retire.... run by volunteer pilots and doesn't make profits for shareholders. Even better... get involved as a Member or Director and help run a scheme 'by pilots, for pilots'.

:wink:



I think it's important here to clarify that you don't get all your money back.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you get your annual subs back (after 20yrs), not what you pay for your insurance policy.

It just comes across as a little misleading that you get "all your money back".
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FerrariFlyer
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Re: income protection, death & tpd

Postby FerrariFlyer » Tue Mar 21 2023, 23:55

Dazedandconfused wrote:
Matt Nielsen wrote:Other than the MBF?

Of course, I'm deeply biased but have a good look at the details... I'm happy to be corrected and whilst it's not a perfect fit for everyone, there's a lot of upsides to the MBF.

Get in early, stay for your career, get all your money back when you retire.... run by volunteer pilots and doesn't make profits for shareholders. Even better... get involved as a Member or Director and help run a scheme 'by pilots, for pilots'.

:wink:



I think it's important here to clarify that you don't get all your money back.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you get your annual subs back (after 20yrs), not what you pay for your insurance policy.

It just comes across as a little misleading that you get "all your money back".


Ask any of your current insurers (house, car, health etc) how much of your yearly premiums you will get back after 20 years plus of no claims.

Either way, it is a very competitive product that is very hard to beat. Two insurance products in one and managed for pilots by pilots as opposed to faceless people completely removed from you.
Skeeter
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Re: income protection, death & tpd

Postby Skeeter » Wed Mar 22 2023, 00:09

Other than the MBF, because I have to leave the fund. I have been given a denial of cover on so many things, that I don't have a choice but to find something else.
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Jabberwocky
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Re: income protection, death & tpd

Postby Jabberwocky » Wed Mar 22 2023, 06:37

Matt Nielsen wrote:Oh... it's pretty rigorous as it well should be! Ultimately the best outcome is always for a pilot to return to work where possible.

With benefits up to $800K for loss of licence, I think most would think that it's reasonable that it is approached carefully. It's other Members' money after all.

For context though, in the 2022 Member year, the MBF paid just under $8.4 million in benefits for permanent loss of licence, $2 million in monthly payments and a million in death cover. Additionally, $1.7 million was returned to retiring Members via refunds of contributions.

I'd encourage anyone considering a product of this type to call the office for some information.


Hi Matt,

If you have insurance through another provider (your super account for example), and were also insured/covered trough the MBF, do you still get paid out from the MBF in the event of the accident?
Matt Nielsen
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Re: income protection, death & tpd

Postby Matt Nielsen » Wed Mar 22 2023, 06:51

I think it's important here to clarify that you don't get all your money back.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you get your annual subs back (after 20yrs), not what you pay for your insurance policy.

It just comes across as a little misleading that you get "all your money back".



Yup... I'll correct you.

You get ALL your money back and it's NOT insurance.

You may have confused the requirement to reach 20 years of membership before becoming eligible? That jumps to 25 years if you've had a period of absence. Subs are called contributions and yes, if you're eligible for a refund, you get those amounts of money back. Subs are an AFAP thing and a payment for membership of the Federation. Those have nothing to do with the MBF... notwithstanding the requirement to be in the AFAP to be in the MBF.

There's other fine print of course... it's discretionary and depends on the Fund's financial position... that discretion hasn't ever been used to not pay.

It's currently capped at $65K... but this is about accounting for future liability rather than capping anything and the Fund moves the rate up as required to not constrain refunds.

If you take benefits throughout your membership, those are deducted from any refund.

It's hard to take denials on conditions. That said, it is very unlikely that any other product would treat 'pre-existing' conditions any differently. Making the same declarations to an insurer will result in a similar outcome. That's why it's so important to join early before you get a dodgy back and bad hearing like the rest of us :)
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bladepitch
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Re: income protection, death & tpd

Postby bladepitch » Sat Mar 25 2023, 11:46

I can comment first hand on the MBF.
Ive been a member for over 10 years, then one day in 2019 I lost my medical due Heart condition that appeared out of nowhere and with no immediate time frame back to work. Once I used up sick leave and annual leave..(I had 4 years with of both) the MBF immediately paid my wage until I returned to work.. with a wife and three young kids it was a massive relief to have it.. there was no issues or problems accessing help. Just normal Doctors reports and ongoing assessments. I only used the insurance for 2 months before returning to work.. never thought I would need it but glad I have it!!
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FerrariFlyer
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Re: income protection, death & tpd

Postby FerrariFlyer » Sun Mar 26 2023, 04:27

As with Bladepitch, never thought I would have needed it....until I did. I lost my medical for nearly 12 months and was helped by the LOL monthly payments for 7-8 months. Without it, we'd have been in severe trouble.
Skeeter
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Re: income protection, death & tpd

Postby Skeeter » Mon Mar 27 2023, 00:20

I don't think anyone would argue a LOL is not good to have.

Matt Nielsen wrote:It's hard to take denials on conditions. That said, it is very unlikely that any other product would treat 'pre-existing' conditions any differently. Making the same declarations to an insurer will result in a similar outcome. That's why it's so important to join early before you get a dodgy back and bad hearing like the rest of us :)


Luckily for me, you are wrong here. The exclusions were made by the MBF on probabilities and not on any current problems. The factor seems to be not of concern for insurance companies. The T&C are not as good as with the MBF, but I prefer to have no exclusions.

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