Tourism Pilot Required - Northern Territory

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Bee3
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Re: Tourism Pilot Required - Northern Territory

Postby Bee3 » Sat Jul 23 2022, 00:30

If you want it enough, you will get it.

Was hard back then, is hard now. Some give up never fly again and live happily ever after, some eat a s$&t sandwhich and get a job flying.

You decide how much bread you have in your sandwhich before going hungry.
HELO1
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Re: Tourism Pilot Required - Northern Territory

Postby HELO1 » Sat Jul 23 2022, 04:41

Bee3 wrote:You decide how much bread you have in your sandwhich before going hungry.


Brilliant Bee3, and so true.

No one ever said going into this industry was going to be a walk in the park, we’ve all had to go to those jobs that aren’t necessarily the “best” in some peoples eyes but it can only be great if YOU think of it that way, bit of gratitude that we are not living in a 3rd world country with minimal prospects in life. Uni students and even some tradesmen are in the same boat, everyone has to work hard.

Can’t expect to get that first job by the coast and be able to surf every day of the week, I went to some of the remotest parts of Australia and had the experience of a lifetime and met some of the best lifelong mates. Now after 5 years in the game I’ve got the opportunity to fly twins for day VFR aerial work ops and live in the city again (not that I enjoy the big smoke but you get to a point where you have to start making the sacrifices for the other half chasing you around the countryside and give them something back).

Now unfortunately this thread has slipped way off topic, but I wish the new employee for the advertised job all the best in what is a very rewarding and amazing part of the country to be working in, the education on country and the people you will meet will be the memories that outlast any other, not to mention the bulk hours that can be achieved at these locations.

Get out there amongst it everyone, it is what you make of it!
HELO1
Wannabe60Driver
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Re: Tourism Pilot Required - Northern Territory

Postby Wannabe60Driver » Mon Aug 1 2022, 00:55

Bee3 wrote:If you want it enough, you will get it.

Was hard back then, is hard now. Some give up never fly again and live happily ever after, some eat a s$&t sandwhich and get a job flying.

You decide how much bread you have in your sandwhich before going hungry.


Give it a rest.

It’s about time we dealt with facts rather than the old “work hard, introduce yourself personally, eat a sh#t sandwich” rubbish.

The fact is that you can count the number of paid entry-level helo pilot jobs given each year in Australia (to anyone other than someone with several years experience chasing cows on the ground) on one hand. In comparison, there are 100+ new CPL(H)s being printed each year.

“Working hard” and “personal introductions” DOES NOT override the insurance minimums of 200-250 hours and your first 100 starts on a turbine.

As for VET, it’s worth remembering that Kiwis have it too. Difference is they have Australian working rights and can lob into somewhere like Great Ocean Road with 150 hours including instrument, mountain, and sling time all before they’ve reached into their own pocket.

Kinda makes a basic Aussie CPL(H) with between 5 and 20 hours on a 44 a bit redundant.

Either you have the additional $60-150k to buy the additional 100+ hours and/or an instructor rating, ME IR, etc after your CPL, or you don’t. If you don’t, you can win the lottery and be the one guy each year with 110 hours to go to the Kimberleys and live out of a swag in the dirt on minimum wage. Or you can sit on the ground loading tourists or fuelling fire fighting machines wondering how you’ll ever get to that company’s 500/1000/1500 hour minimums.

Unless you have the $$$, you simply won’t. End of story.

Imagine being in any other trade in Australia and explaining to your partner that you want the same amount of student debt as a surgeon, PLUS you want to spend an additional $100k, all for the glory of getting a minimum wage job.
Fill-level
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Re: Tourism Pilot Required - Northern Territory

Postby Fill-level » Mon Aug 1 2022, 03:32

Wannabe60Driver wrote:
Bee3 wrote:If you want it enough, you will get it.

Was hard back then, is hard now. Some give up never fly again and live happily ever after, some eat a s$&t sandwhich and get a job flying.

You decide how much bread you have in your sandwhich before going hungry.


Give it a rest.

It’s about time we dealt with facts rather than the old “work hard, introduce yourself personally, eat a sh#t sandwich” rubbish.

The fact is that you can count the number of paid entry-level helo pilot jobs given each year in Australia (to anyone other than someone with several years experience chasing cows on the ground) on one hand. In comparison, there are 100+ new CPL(H)s being printed each year.

“Working hard” and “personal introductions” DOES NOT override the insurance minimums of 200-250 hours and your first 100 starts on a turbine.

As for VET, it’s worth remembering that Kiwis have it too. Difference is they have Australian working rights and can lob into somewhere like Great Ocean Road with 150 hours including instrument, mountain, and sling time all before they’ve reached into their own pocket.

Kinda makes a basic Aussie CPL(H) with between 5 and 20 hours on a 44 a bit redundant.

Either you have the additional $60-150k to buy the additional 100+ hours and/or an instructor rating, ME IR, etc after your CPL, or you don’t. If you don’t, you can win the lottery and be the one guy each year with 110 hours to go to the Kimberleys and live out of a swag in the dirt on minimum wage. Or you can sit on the ground loading tourists or fuelling fire fighting machines wondering how you’ll ever get to that company’s 500/1000/1500 hour minimums.

Unless you have the $$$, you simply won’t. End of story.

Imagine being in any other trade in Australia and explaining to your partner that you want the same amount of student debt as a surgeon, PLUS you want to spend an additional $100k, all for the glory of getting a minimum wage job.



Can not of said it better. remember the Vietnam vets retiring , same B@s#!t.
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skypig
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Re: Tourism Pilot Required - Northern Territory

Postby skypig » Mon Aug 1 2022, 07:22

You have a choice:

You can complain and point out all the “facts”. Convince yourself that it’s not fair, too hard, and out of your control. And never get 500hrs and explore the industry. Be a life long wannabe like 10’s? of thousands* of CPL’s before you.

Or

You can do whatever it takes, and work as a Helicopter pilot. Like thousands* of CPL’s before you.


I’d suggest it has never been easy, fair or straightforward to get your first 500hrs (or whatever) in the 30+ years I’ve had a CPL-H.
All the things mentioned: Insurance requirements, ex military pilots, rich kids, damn Kiwis :) etc, have all been “blamed” over that period - still, many have progressed from bare CPL (72.6hrs in my case) to “ticking all the boxes”.

Like most, I’ve had to move all over Australia and the Pacific (And be in a position to do so - no debt and no motorbike!! etc. Probably no kids or partner either, unless you are prepared to try twice as hard), pay for ratings (FW night/IF, RW instructor), pay for a B206 endorsement. Use Annual leave to study an expensive ATPL course.

Worth it? Debatable. But at least I won’t die wondering.


* I think there is a number (10?) of CPL’s that never do another 100hrs (Some not another hr) in a helicopter, for each one that gets past 500hrs.
Wannabe60Driver
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Re: Tourism Pilot Required - Northern Territory

Postby Wannabe60Driver » Mon Aug 1 2022, 07:55

skypig wrote:Like most, I’ve had to move all over Australia and the Pacific (And be in a position to do so - no debt and no motorbike!! etc. Probably no kids or partner either, unless you are prepared to try twice as hard), pay for ratings (FW night/IF, RW instructor), pay for a B206 endorsement. Use Annual leave to study an expensive ATPL course.

Worth it? Debatable. But at least I won’t die wondering.


* I think there is a number (10?) of CPL’s that never do another 100hrs (Some not another hr) in a helicopter, for each one that gets past 500hrs.


So exactly like I said: You can either afford to pay cash for all that or you cannot. The insurance minimums aren’t debatable. They’re a fact of life.

More importantly, the world has changed substantially since any of the old crew that want to talk about “personal approaches” or “wanting it more”.
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skypig
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Re: Tourism Pilot Required - Northern Territory

Postby skypig » Mon Aug 1 2022, 10:27

Wannabe60Driver wrote:
skypig wrote:Like most, I’ve had to move all over Australia and the Pacific (And be in a position to do so - no debt and no motorbike!! etc. Probably no kids or partner either, unless you are prepared to try twice as hard), pay for ratings (FW night/IF, RW instructor), pay for a B206 endorsement. Use Annual leave to study an expensive ATPL course.

Worth it? Debatable. But at least I won’t die wondering.


* I think there is a number (10?) of CPL’s that never do another 100hrs (Some not another hr) in a helicopter, for each one that gets past 500hrs.


So exactly like I said: You can either afford to pay cash for all that or you cannot. The insurance minimums aren’t debatable. They’re a fact of life.

More importantly, the world has changed substantially since any of the old crew that want to talk about “personal approaches” or “wanting it more”.


You are reading my post with a very narrow focus.
Did I claim insurance minimums were debatable?
Don’t you think insurance minimums have been around for more than 30 years?
What, in the Helicopter industry has “changed substantially” to make the personal approach, and “wanting it more” irrelevant?
Wannabe60Driver
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Re: Tourism Pilot Required - Northern Territory

Postby Wannabe60Driver » Mon Aug 1 2022, 21:42

skypig wrote:Don’t you think insurance minimums have been around for more than 30 years?
What, in the Helicopter industry has “changed substantially” to make the personal approach, and “wanting it more” irrelevant?


Agreed, some form of insurance minimums have always been around. The issue is that the aviation insurance industry follows a cycle of: lots of players that consequently insure operators that then crash - many insurers then think “this isn’t as easy as we thought” and exit the game leaving one or two remaining in a monopoly/duopoly situation. Years can go by before a few new hopefuls dive in again to shake things up. That cycle can take 10 to 15 years and we’ve been in the worst place re hour minimums and premiums for several years now.

Not saying a personal approach or “wanting it more” will ever be irrelevant as that’s who is going to get those couple of jobs each year with only 110 hours. Anyone else needs the spare funds to get to a minimum of 200-250 hours under their own steam, and even that’s not as simple as it sounds. Many schools have different requirements for hiring a machine once you’ve got a license and therefore no longer a student. Many of the guys that normally cross-hire 44s also won’t touch anyone with under 200 hours. It’s almost at the point where if you want time in anything other than a two-seater, you need the cash to buy your own machine (or buy into a syndicate) and fly for 100 hours “self insured”.
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skypig
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Re: Tourism Pilot Required - Northern Territory

Postby skypig » Mon Aug 1 2022, 23:49

Not saying a personal approach or “wanting it more” will ever be irrelevant as that’s who is going to get those couple of jobs each year with only 110 hours.


So we agree!

Potentially it might be advantageous for you to examine the reason/s you don’t see this proven path as one for yourself to take.
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Freewheel
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Re: Tourism Pilot Required - Northern Territory

Postby Freewheel » Tue Aug 2 2022, 02:38

I’m sure Brett is so thrilled that their wish for an employee has been so overtaken with bile and bitterness that their needs have been overwhelmed.

Perhaps it’s time for job ads to be locked so as to be left alone…..
Never forget that some people exist purely as a warning to others.
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KOALA
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Re: Tourism Pilot Required - Northern Territory

Postby KOALA » Tue Aug 2 2022, 09:29

:)
Freewheel wrote:I’m sure Brett is so thrilled that their wish for an employee has been so overtaken with bile and bitterness that their needs have been overwhelmed.

Perhaps it’s time for job ads to be locked so as to be left alone…..


Very well said. Couldn’t agree more :)
A young, aspiring pilot 8)
Fill-level
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Re: Tourism Pilot Required - Northern Territory

Postby Fill-level » Tue Aug 2 2022, 21:07

Freewheel wrote:I’m sure Brett is so thrilled that their wish for an employee has been so overtaken with bile and bitterness that their needs have been overwhelmed.

Perhaps it’s time for job ads to be locked so as to be left alone…..


This seems to be as vital as a ASIC card in aviation in todays environment.
4real
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Re: Tourism Pilot Required - Northern Territory

Postby 4real » Wed Aug 3 2022, 05:37

A rare opportunity, good luck to anyone who applies. It’s a great start to your career
Last edited by 4real on Wed Aug 3 2022, 13:26, edited 1 time in total.

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