How easy is it for break into the ME IFR side?

[nuggs]

As a vfr utility pilot with a few thousand hours how hard is it to get into those multi-engine jobs? Looking at the HEMS/Police work eventually
They all seem to require 500 hrs ME experience so not sure where to start. would be getting my instrument rating be enough, or have to pay for ME IR myself?
Cheers

[Mag seal]

Get an instrument rating. You’ll find a job as an offshore co-pilot which will get you your multi and IFR experience. That would be the most popular route.
CHC RAAF SAR would be the best bet for HEMS and Police progression though.
It’s a well trodden path both ways.

[Icefather]

would be getting my instrument rating be enough, or have to pay for ME IR myself?
Cheers

There’s a shortage of people with an IR in the offshore world .
Everyone who has bit the bullet and done their own IR rating has found work.

As Mag Seal said. Those are both good options and with a few years as a CoPilot you’d be a lot closer to the end goal.

SEH IFR rating would be enough. Reach out to some of the companies you’d like to work for and chat with them.

offshore is not overly difficult, (shh don’t tell anyone) but rule focused and a lot more black and white than utility work. Having that experience will help you overall but it will take time before you become the captain. There’s IOGP, company minimums and necessity though without the IR you probably won’t be looked at twice. And cadetships are few and far between at the moment but you’d have to wait until that pops up and then be successful.

Most direct option is self fund an IR rating, go cap n hand to one of the Offshore companies and the money paid as a co pilot would pay back the self investment in a couple of years. So it depends on your goals and end position your aiming for.

[Ogaff47]

would be getting my instrument rating be enough, or have to pay for ME IR myself?
Cheers

There’s a shortage of people with an IR in the offshore world .
Everyone who has bit the bullet and done their own IR rating has found work.

As Mag Seal said. Those are both good options and with a few years as a CoPilot you’d be a lot closer to the end goal.

SEH IFR rating would be enough. Reach out to some of the companies you’d like to work for and chat with them.

offshore is not overly difficult, (shh don’t tell anyone) but rule focused and a lot more black and white than utility work. Having that experience will help you overall but it will take time before you become the captain. There’s IOGP, company minimums and necessity though without the IR you probably won’t be looked at twice. And cadetships are few and far between at the moment but you’d have to wait until that pops up and then be successful.

Most direct option is self fund an IR rating, go cap n hand to one of the Offshore companies and the money paid as a co pilot would pay back the self investment in a couple of years. So it depends on your goals and end position your aiming for.

This is incredibly sound advice.

SEH-IR is definitely enough to crack into a Co-Pilot position both onshore and offshore. It'll cost the company nearly nothing to take you from SEH-IR to MEH-IR during/after your initial type rating.

If your end goal is EMS/Police work, you'd likely benefit greater from RAAF SAR work, but it'll take you nearly a decade to get the required MEH PIC time. Offshore work will see you build time MUCH faster, but the skills don't translate to EMS/Police work all that much.

There's no straight line to the finish. One thing is for sure, though- if you invest in your IR training, you'll get a job.

[Eastwoodblade]

With the costs of an IFR in Heli and limited locations and pricing the USA is really the only option to get the rating and then convert back. Myself and a few other lads went the fixed wing route in Australia (SECIR-A). Ogaf, what are your thoughts on plank drivers getting an opportunity with Rotary?

[nuggs]

Thanks for all the replies, sounds like I stand a good chance if I pay for my own IFR. Is it still recommended to get the IFR in the US as you can do it in 22/44s then convert back to Australia? Or do it from scratch in Aus ?

[Mag seal]

Thanks for all the replies, sounds like I stand a good chance if I pay for my own IFR. Is it still recommended to get the IFR in the US as you can do it in 22/44s then convert back to Australia? Or do it from scratch in Aus ?

Do it in Australia. Companies probably won’t accept a US IR. I’ve also heard schools that convert FAA to CASA end up making the candidate do pretty much all of it again unless they have had significant IFR experience on the FAA license.
It’ll be expensive, if you are under 45 it’ll be worth it. If you’re older I’d stick to utility flying.

[nuggs]

How much can you get a IFR rating for now days? Minimum 20 hours in a jetbox then 20 in a sim?

[skypig]

If you have an Aeroplane licence, doing the IR in that, either to show to a prospective employer, or to convert to Helicopter is a path worth considering.

[Ogaff47]

Thanks for all the replies, sounds like I stand a good chance if I pay for my own IFR. Is it still recommended to get the IFR in the US as you can do it in 22/44s then convert back to Australia? Or do it from scratch in Aus ?

Lots of pros and cons to training in the US v. Aus for IFR. Spend a couple of days doing your own research and organise your priorities to see which option suits your needs the best. It mostly breaks down to the US is cheaper but Australia is more convenient.

I'll include a non-exhaustive list for you and any others who may be asking themselves a similar question:

US Pros-
Substantially Cheaper at around $22k AUD in an R22 (for all training, exams, and flight exams; not travel/accommodation).
More choice for training locations/aircraft/instructors
Better & more IFR infrastructure.
Sets up a clear and easy pathway for returning to the states to complete an ATPL-H at a later date.

US Cons-
There's a lot of paperwork and time hurdles to get started (if you don't already have an FAA License).
You'll need to do a quick CASA to FAA CPL-H conversion prior to starting your IFR training
Conversion from FAA to CASA will require an IREX exam and a flight test.
Cost of travel/accomodation/etc..
You'll learn simple and effective procedures and regulations for flying IFR that won't prepare you as well for flying in the CASA system.

AUS Pros-
You'll be learning in the same environment you hope to be employed in.
No conversion requirements.
Likely quicker (depending on school capacity)
You'll establish networks and relationships within the industry that you're seeking employment. (don't underestimate this one)

AUS Cons-
It's expensive.
Limited selection for training institutions.
Still plenty of travel expenses, depending on where you live.


Not sure what Mag Seal is referencing with regard to companies not recognising an FAA license, as once converted its indistinguishable from a CASA one. I did my IR in the US and transferred it here with a couple hours of differences training and a flight exam and no company has asked where I did my training. Though Mag Seal's general advice is likely sound with regard to just doing the training in Australia if you have the funds.

Good luck!

[Ogaff47]

With the costs of an IFR in Heli and limited locations and pricing the USA is really the only option to get the rating and then convert back. Myself and a few other lads went the fixed wing route in Australia (SECIR-A). Ogaf, what are your thoughts on plank drivers getting an opportunity with Rotary?

I can't speak to what the add-on requirements are for SECIR-A to a SEH-IR, sorry. I'm sure the answers can be found deep in the CASR Part 61, or by reaching out to PHS, FTA, or Rotorlift. As for rotary opportunities- there are plenty of co-pilot positions for helicopter pilots with 500+ helicopter hours and an instrument rating. Judging by the average age of the population offshore, demand will only increase in the next 10 years. I would think that the money and quality of life would be better in the fixed-wing world; that's pure speculation as I don't associate with fixed wing pilots, on principle.

[cupid stunt]

61.890

[bladepitch]

Guys.

Fund your own IR in Oz, the examiner is usually an offshore Check and trainer!
If they like what they see. You never know , You may get offered something at the end of the test.
Be humble and show that you are highly trainable with a good attitude. (idiots are found out very quickly and word spreads)
Everyone knows each other at this level and you won’t be looking long before you get picked up. Offshore co pilot is better route with a newly minted ME IR to gain time and understanding of multi crew ops.

Ring all the major companies, It should pay dividends pretty well straight way if not within a few months.

[choppermech1986]

Guys, go spend $82,000 for a VET instrument rating.

Source:

...It should pay dividends pretty well straight way if not within a few months.

[Zimbo22]

Never been easier. Go get your SE IF rating and you should at least get an interview. Dont go to US you’ll be found out really quickly when you eventually go to sim here and can’t fly a SID. Do your ATPLS. If you want HEMS you’ll need multi command and that’s harder to get. Could go RAAF SAR but they hardly fly and don’t actually do any real jobs anyway. Could go coey at lifeflight I know they still run 2 pilots on some or their aircraft but unsure of progression to command. Plenty of options out there. Even try Auriga.

[Ogaff47]

Dont go to US you’ll be found out really quickly when you eventually go to sim here and can’t fly a SID.

Plenty of reasons not to train in the states, but SIDs are more widely used in the US than Australia, so that isn’t one of them. The FAA IR rating isn’t fake or lesser than CASAs.

Generally great advice from Zimbo.

[bl@ckers]

Guys, go spend $82,000 for a VET instrument rating.

Source:

...It should pay dividends pretty well straight way if not within a few months.

Don’t spend $82,000 for a SECIR. That is ridiculous (and offensive in my opinion) and taking advantage of the VET system.

If you’re going to invest in your own instrument rating, get in touch with NightHawks in Cessnock, you’ll be around half that price and with very experienced IFR pilots/instructors. You’ll also get a 3D endorsement.