Grade 2 Training Endorsement?

[apolloseventeen]

G'day All,
Wondering if anyone knows of a training school who is offering a course under the new Part 61 requirements to upgrade a Grade 3 to Grade 2 training endorsement?

Design Feature and Low Level training endorsements would be helpful as well.

Thanks.

[ChopperSales]

Bankstown Helicopters are the guys to talk to. As it's new, only a few of the team up to speed so if the first guy that answers the phone its sure you might need to ask around or call back.

[froginasock]

A17,

Assuming that you have a Grade 3 training endorsement at the moment - then it should be a fairly simple process (as the training you completed to become a Grade 3 'made you' an instructor).

So to 'upgrade' you are required to have the appropriate experience (see Part 61 61.1170 and Table 61.1235) then instead of conducting an instructor proficiency check - you'll need to book a TEST with an appropriately qualified ATO/FE.

Then when 'upgrading' to a Grade 1 - repeat this process. You shouldn't need a course (per se) .. your CFI should recommend you - and in doing so it will be based on your experience and competence - which is tested by the ATO/FE.

While Part 61 (+141/142) is a disaster in terms of the industry - the information is in there.

See below

Frog


61.1170 Limitations on exercise of privileges of flight instructor ratings general

(1) The holder of a flight instructor rating is authorised to exercise the privileges of the rating in an aircraft of a particular category only if the holder has:
(a) completed the aeronautical experience; and
(b) passed the flight test;
required under regulation 61.1185 for the grant of the rating in an aircraft of that category.

61.1235 Kinds of training endorsement

The kinds of training endorsement are set out in column 1 of table 61.1235.

Grade 2 training endorsement
(category specific)

• Commercial pilot licence or air transport pilot licence with the specified aircraft category rating
• Grade 3 training endorsement
• At least 200 hours of flight time conducting initial flight training in an aircraft of the specified category

[apolloseventeen]

Mr Frog,
Thanks for your input and I was also under the impression that the way you explained the scenario was how it worked (meet the experience, sit the flight test).

Just before sitting my G2 test however, it was bought to my attention, via a CASA rep, that 61.1250 2(b) also applies:

(2) The applicant must also have:
(a) met the aeronautical experience requirements (if any) mentioned in column 3 of the item; and
(b) completed flight training for the endorsement; and
(c) passed the flight test mentioned in the Part 61 Manual of Standards for the endorsement; and
(d) for an applicant for a multi-crew pilot training endorsement—completed an approved course of training in multi-crew co-operation.

As I had it explained to me, any training endorsement (G1, G2, LL, DF, FIR, NVFR etc) requires you to undergo specific "flight training", the course would need to follow the definition of flight training/the MoS (as per 61.B.2) and that I would need to have a certificate stating I was now "competent" to sit my flight

In my scenario right now, and several other instructors I know, I'd like to get my G2, LL and DF (so I can teach in turbines) but I'm looking at 3 courses and 3 flight tests.

If anyone can shed further light on this situation it would be greatly appreciated.

[froginasock]

Your GR3 would have to have been done as an approved course .. so the school that you did this with should know - in your particular circumstances - what you have/haven't covered from the MOS. Otherwise you'd be a Grade 2 under the old system already.

The place that conducted your training couldn't do anything unless it was a CASA approved course in their ops manual (GR 3 - GR2 or whatever).

So .. Check the MOS .. have you conduced the training competencies (flight) listed in Schedule 2 and the Schedule 3 - Section 2.4 (theory based) competencies at that school? The ATO that conducted your GR3 flight test must have used a flight test form (you'll find those on the CASA website in the 'forms' section) - check it - you'll see what FIR competencies are tested - it's the same for all grades - just the standard required will change with the Grade. You shoul have completed a course of training for the GR3 instructor rating. For example there is an instructor rating exam required now - you only have to do that once - that would have covered all the Schedule 3 stuff.

The other design features can be conducted on the one test for your GR2 - and/or on application to CASA depending on your previous experience that I may be unaware of.

[Rotorpilot]

How did you go?
Did you end up doing a course for your Gr2 or was the training for your GR3 enough?0

Did you do your flight test doing Low Level TE in a turbine and ticking all 3 boxes Gr2, LL-TE DF-BGT?

[bl@ckers]

How did you go?
Did you end up doing a course for your Gr2 or was the training for your GR3 enough?0

Did you do your flight test doing Low Level TE in a turbine and ticking all 3 boxes Gr2, LL-TE DF-BGT?

You need to do a specific course of training for any instructor training endorsement. A grade 2 upgrade (or grade 2 TE) is just like adding a low level training endorsement. You will be issued with a certificate of completion from the school who did the TE training with you, which the FE will want to see as evidence.

The FE can use a GTE sequence as your grade 2 FPC upgrade (I.e 2 in 1). However, you would still require a separate test for the low level in this scenario. Alternatively LL could be your G2 FPC and the a separate GTE TE test.