ATPL(H)? What do They do?

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Living-instinkt
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ATPL(H)? What do They do?

Postby Living-instinkt » Mon Feb 6 2017, 02:01

Just out of curiosity since I've never heard nor seen a Airline using a Helicopter and Google didn't prevail, so what does an ATPL(H) Actually do? Transport passengers between airports? Or is this a licence for international flight? Is that even a thing for helicopters in Australia?

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Re: ATPL(H)? What do They do?

Postby Cleared Hot » Mon Feb 6 2017, 03:58

Basically if you want to fly multi crew for example in the off shore industry or EMS you will need atpl. If you don't want to do those things then don't bother with it.
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Living-instinkt
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Re: ATPL(H)? What do They do?

Postby Living-instinkt » Mon Feb 6 2017, 06:43

Ahh I see, thanks for the heads up. (y)
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Eric Hunt
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Re: ATPL(H)? What do They do?

Postby Eric Hunt » Mon Feb 6 2017, 08:45

The ATPL doesn't really do that much for you.

I was able to fly a Bell 412 as single pilot IFR, day and night, for EMS work and general duties, but I wasn't allowed to have a copilot - which would make life easier - because I didn't hold that amazing piece of paper called ATPL. The same company held a contract with a Govt agency which required 2 pilots on board, so I couldn't fly those jobs, which were easier than the one I was already on.

Similarly, I was flying an S-76 SPIFR and again couldn't take a copilot. I still was required to do the same courses in CRM that the 2-crew dudes did, though, despite not having a crew to order around. ("I said to myself - "Self! Read the pre-opening-the-checklist checklist!" "Roger, Sir!")
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Re: ATPL(H)? What do They do?

Postby kiwiflyer » Mon Feb 6 2017, 10:08

I disagree and you have contradicted yourself EH.
The ATPL does quite a bit as far as gaining employment or getting promoted and the associated pay packets that go with it.
And you stated you could not do certain multi crew jobs without it.
It doesn't make you fly any better but I would not have the job I have now without it.
It's a bit of paper that requires a lot of hard work to obtain and is a must have if you want to move into multi crew work.
Now why did I want to do that again...... oh yes the extra money, haven't seen it yet they must be going to pay me a lump sum at some stage :roll:
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Re: ATPL(H)? What do They do?

Postby Balibelly » Mon Feb 6 2017, 11:00

Almost impossible to obtain now unless you get a job with the big boys!

Back in the day it was 1500TT and 7 exams.

Now its MCC Course, 50 night, 30 instrument....etc etc etc
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Re: ATPL(H)? What do They do?

Postby Saucepan » Mon Feb 6 2017, 11:08

But of course the exams changed with the times......

I did my ATPLs in the UK 8 years ago and the weight and balance paper was based on the Boeing 727! Even the fixed wing guys said they were never going to fly that thing! Still, it was interesting learning about Decca navigation and how a cathode ray tube works! Out of date...never! :?

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Re: ATPL(H)? What do They do?

Postby muppet » Mon Feb 6 2017, 21:19

Indeed Saucepan, when I did the exams (ca. 10 yrs ago) I had to calculate ETPs for a 767 outbound from Samoa using all kinds of knowledge I have never used since... Hopefully they have caught up with the times.

And yes, I'm with kiwiflyer on this one. An ATPL is arguably the highest level of licence because it represents the highest level of flying within the helicopter industry. Multi-pilot crews are quite a different dynamic to single pilot ops and require a 'crew management' approach and structure. Single Pilot IFR, whilst it is more challenging on one hand (especially if your crummy auto-pilot is 30 yrs old...), involves a different skillset. (I think Single Pilot IFR is for the birds. Fine on frequently flown routes & if it is all going well, but not much fun when it turns to custard.)

I like to argue that because I hold the same level licence as a 777 Captain, then I should be remunerated at a similar rate. Not having much luck with that so far... sniff...
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Re: ATPL(H)? What do They do?

Postby HeliHotdog » Sat Feb 18 2017, 13:10

Whilst we are on the topic of ATPL's...

What is everyone's take on the recent changes in regard to the minimums to obtain said licence?

Going from 7 exam subjects and 1500TT (realistic to accomplish if one is motivated enough), right the way up to IF, Night and MCC training. Not to mention a flight test in a IFR turbine. But hey, TT is reduced to 1000. :|

Even with the drive and determination to ascend to the next level in this amazing industry of ours, the recent changes may have raised the bar a little too high. The investment alone would be in the tens of thousands.(if someone has nutted out an actual figure for this?)

Obviously the issues of new ATPL (H)'s has taken a drop and no doubt will for the foreseeable future.

Interested to see what everyone REALLY thinks about all this i.e.
Long term / short term effects.
Future skill shortage.
Imported Pilots.

Please share your experience if you have any input in the subject, as I'm sure there are a lot of people wondering the same things I am.


Not sure what I may or may not have opened...
You know what they say about opinions.... :shock:
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hand in pants
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Re: ATPL(H)? What do They do?

Postby hand in pants » Sat Feb 18 2017, 22:02

Obviously the new requirements have been set by caa people who are ex-military for ex-military people. To our (civilian trained) disadvantage.

There is NO safety case for this at all, it is just the military boys club looking after their own.
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Capt Hollywood
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Re: ATPL(H)? What do They do?

Postby Capt Hollywood » Sun Feb 19 2017, 04:09

I can't see anyone attaining an ATPL on their own anymore, it will be just too expensive.

The only people getting ATPLs in the future will be those who go off to work for the larger operators (Essentially offshore operators) that require an ATPL. As has always happened, assuming you have a pass in the ATPL subjects, they'll provide you with all the necessary training and experience to reach the minimum requirements for the issue of an ATPL.
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Re: ATPL(H)? What do They do?

Postby havick » Sun Feb 19 2017, 05:01

HeliHotdog wrote:Whilst we are on the topic of ATPL's...

What is everyone's take on the recent changes in regard to the minimums to obtain said licence?

Going from 7 exam subjects and 1500TT (realistic to accomplish if one is motivated enough), right the way up to IF, Night and MCC training. Not to mention a flight test in a IFR turbine. But hey, TT is reduced to 1000. :|

Even with the drive and determination to ascend to the next level in this amazing industry of ours, the recent changes may have raised the bar a little too high. The investment alone would be in the tens of thousands.(if someone has nutted out an actual figure for this?)

Obviously the issues of new ATPL (H)'s has taken a drop and no doubt will for the foreseeable future.

Interested to see what everyone REALLY thinks about all this i.e.
Long term / short term effects.
Future skill shortage.
Imported Pilots.

Please share your experience if you have any input in the subject, as I'm sure there are a lot of people wondering the same things I am.


Not sure what I may or may not have opened...


I don't agree with CASA's implementation or execution of the part 61 regs, however you do realize these new ATPL experience requirements are similar to what the rest of the world require?

Also note that the flight test can in fact be completed in a vfr machine.
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Re: ATPL(H)? What do They do?

Postby KOALA » Sun Feb 19 2017, 06:38

Hello all,

On a side note. Is there anyone that does full-time ATPL(H) theory courses in Australia??? If not anywhere else anyone can think of recommend? Canada / USA / Europe!!! Maybe combine it with a conversion to that licensing system?

I have talked to AFT over here and they do not run the ATPL(H) course full time. Only fixed wing stuff Oc:= Oc:= . Distance learning seems to be the only way to complete this. Would that be correct?

Thanks pop;
A young, aspiring pilot 8)
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Re: ATPL(H)? What do They do?

Postby Cleared Hot » Sun Feb 19 2017, 06:57

Marshy im not aware of any full time courses. Just do it by corespondence dude, it's not hard. I did it that way and I'm a total study retard. If aft does not float your boat you can try Lionel Taylor in Moorabbin Vic, he does part time instruction and sometimes full time depending on the demand.
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Re: ATPL(H)? What do They do?

Postby FerrariFlyer » Sun Feb 19 2017, 07:23

AFT used to do four of the more difficult helicopter ATPL subjects full-time at their facility on the Sunny Coast. An exam centre is also only ten minutes drive from their classrooms.

I'd double check with AFT to see if they still do full-time courses for the harder subjects. Many have completed the study this way, myself included.

The other three subjects are easier to complete via distance correspondence however no full time course for them that I'm aware of.

http://aft.com.au/cms/?page_id=96
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Re: ATPL(H)? What do They do?

Postby havick » Sun Feb 19 2017, 19:16

I think PHS now offers an online ATPL theory course.
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Re: ATPL(H)? What do They do?

Postby KOALA » Sun Feb 19 2017, 23:50

Morning,

No worries at all. Thanks for the feedback. I will look into the above options and see what will work out the best for me.

Well received. Thanks again. Marshy84 :D
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Re: ATPL(H)? What do They do?

Postby KOALA » Mon Feb 20 2017, 02:26

Just found this is case anyone was interested in reading it.

https://www.casa.gov.au/files/rr61strpdf
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