NZ IFR RATINGS

Endosements, Ratings and Certificates.
Low_Level_Hell
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NZ IFR RATINGS

Postby Low_Level_Hell » Wed Nov 23 2016, 08:43

Hi guys quick question regarding IFR ratings in NZ ??

If i was to go out tomorrow and get my ppl Fixed wing plus a
SEIFR, how hard is it to transfer over to CPLH ? My understanding
is that I will need to do a flight test in a helicopter that is SEIFR capable ? correct or wrong ?
with full intent on moving to a MEIFR once able to ,

I know this can be a pretty broad spectrum but any help
or guidance would be greatly Appreciated

Thanks
Saucepan
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Re: NZ IFR RATINGS

Postby Saucepan » Wed Nov 23 2016, 11:12

I admire your goals and aspirations. And who I am to effect them. As guidance though, from PPL to CPL then MECIR are big steps. For employment after you'll be a low time over qualified pilot competing against equally qualified pilots with lots of experience.

For accurate advice regarding those qualifications and licences talk to Beckers.

Good luck. S.
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Evil Twin
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Re: NZ IFR RATINGS

Postby Evil Twin » Wed Nov 23 2016, 11:17

Are there even any SEIFR capable helicopters in NZ? I'm not being facetious (sp) just not aware of any.

Looking at your process, which does seem a little convoluted though I follow your logic. It must surely be cheaper to go buy a MEIFR straight off the bat? What you're proposing is:-

1. Get a fixed wing PPL 50 hrs or less if you are converting.
2. Complete a fixed wing SEIFR rating. Will have to include 10 hrs night (in NZ) unless the rules have changed since I last looked so another 50 odd hours, up to 20 in a sim.
3. Complete the conversion to SEIFR (H) hrs unknown (by me), plus SEIFR flight test.
4. Upgrade to MEIFR (H), will include multi engine aircraft rating, some IFR training/practice, MEIFR test.

Just seems a long way around to me and maybe costly into the bargain. It may be possible to shop overseas, here in Australia for example. Go straight for MEIFR and then convert back. A lot less complicated and in the end possibly cheaper. As I said I can follow your logic but, just seems very complicated once you write it down.

It has always amazed me that nobody has set-up an IFR twin squirrel solely for the purpose above in NZ, but I guess the market may not be big enough to warrant the investment.

I'll be very interested to hear how you get on in the long run.

ET
kiwiflyer
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Re: NZ IFR RATINGS

Postby kiwiflyer » Wed Nov 23 2016, 20:39

Unless you want a FW instrument rating you can just go and do some IF in a FW and it counts up to 10 hrs I think.
Then 20 hrs in an approved sim then a minimum of 10 hrs in a helicopter under instruction for the purpose of gaining a instrument rating then the flight test, so in total prob 13 hrs of helicopter time.
As already stated if you want to use your instrument rating for work a SEIR is not much good you will need a MECIR.
Either way it's still an expensive exercise.
You can do it a similar way in Canada and the US but end up with a R22 IFR rating or a 206 one in Canada as the flight test has to be in a turbine.
There is a IFR 206 in Auckland somewhere but from memory when I asked for a price it was only $500 an hour less than a IFR twin squirrel in Australia.
There is no cheap way.
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havick
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Re: NZ IFR RATINGS

Postby havick » Wed Nov 23 2016, 22:27

kiwiflyer wrote:Unless you want a FW instrument rating you can just go and do some IF in a FW and it counts up to 10 hrs I think.
Then 20 hrs in an approved sim then a minimum of 10 hrs in a helicopter under instruction for the purpose of gaining a instrument rating then the flight test, so in total prob 13 hrs of helicopter time.
As already stated if you want to use your instrument rating for work a SEIR is not much good you will need a MECIR.
Either way it's still an expensive exercise.
You can do it a similar way in Canada and the US but end up with a R22 IFR rating or a 206 one in Canada as the flight test has to be in a turbine.
There is a IFR 206 in Auckland somewhere but from memory when I asked for a price it was only $500 an hour less than a IFR twin squirrel in Australia.
There is no cheap way.


Doing your instrument rating in the US and planning to use it in AUS is basically useless, not that was originally the question anyway.

Mixture of fixed wing instrument is definitely a great way to learn the basics before the cost turns exponential in a helicopter.
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Low_Level_Hell
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Re: NZ IFR RATINGS

Postby Low_Level_Hell » Thu Nov 24 2016, 01:47

kiwiflyer wrote:Unless you want a FW instrument rating you can just go and do some IF in a FW and it counts up to 10 hrs I think.
Then 20 hrs in an approved sim then a minimum of 10 hrs in a helicopter under instruction for the purpose of gaining a instrument rating then the flight test, so in total prob 13 hrs of helicopter time.
As already stated if you want to use your instrument rating for work a SEIR is not much good you will need a MECIR.
Either way it's still an expensive exercise.
You can do it a similar way in Canada and the US but end up with a R22 IFR rating or a 206 one in Canada as the flight test has to be in a turbine.
There is a IFR 206 in Auckland somewhere but from memory when I asked for a price it was only $500 an hour less than a IFR twin squirrel in Australia.
There is no cheap way.



So my understanding from your reply is that you will not need to obtain a PPL fixed wing to do IFR ? you are able to do a minimum 10 hours then cross credit ? and then do 20 hours in an approved helicopter sim plus the 10 hours in a seifr capable machine ?

sorry for all the questions just trying to break it down as best I can , so far this seems the most particle way

Thanks
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havick
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Re: NZ IFR RATINGS

Postby havick » Thu Nov 24 2016, 01:57

Low_Level_Hell wrote:
kiwiflyer wrote:Unless you want a FW instrument rating you can just go and do some IF in a FW and it counts up to 10 hrs I think.
Then 20 hrs in an approved sim then a minimum of 10 hrs in a helicopter under instruction for the purpose of gaining a instrument rating then the flight test, so in total prob 13 hrs of helicopter time.
As already stated if you want to use your instrument rating for work a SEIR is not much good you will need a MECIR.
Either way it's still an expensive exercise.
You can do it a similar way in Canada and the US but end up with a R22 IFR rating or a 206 one in Canada as the flight test has to be in a turbine.
There is a IFR 206 in Auckland somewhere but from memory when I asked for a price it was only $500 an hour less than a IFR twin squirrel in Australia.
There is no cheap way.



So my understanding from your reply is that you will not need to obtain a PPL fixed wing to do IFR ? you are able to do a minimum 10 hours then cross credit ? and then do 20 hours in an approved helicopter sim plus the 10 hours in a seifr capable machine ?

sorry for all the questions just trying to break it down as best I can , so far this seems the most particle way

Thanks


The answer is it depends. Most schools will have an approved training syllabus from Casa, so you will have to check if dual hours flown elsewhere in an aero plane will count for their syllabus. Mike Becker can probably add more definitive info on this point.
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Low_Level_Hell
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Re: NZ IFR RATINGS

Postby Low_Level_Hell » Thu Nov 24 2016, 02:00

havick wrote:
Low_Level_Hell wrote:
kiwiflyer wrote:Unless you want a FW instrument rating you can just go and do some IF in a FW and it counts up to 10 hrs I think.
Then 20 hrs in an approved sim then a minimum of 10 hrs in a helicopter under instruction for the purpose of gaining a instrument rating then the flight test, so in total prob 13 hrs of helicopter time.
As already stated if you want to use your instrument rating for work a SEIR is not much good you will need a MECIR.
Either way it's still an expensive exercise.
You can do it a similar way in Canada and the US but end up with a R22 IFR rating or a 206 one in Canada as the flight test has to be in a turbine.
There is a IFR 206 in Auckland somewhere but from memory when I asked for a price it was only $500 an hour less than a IFR twin squirrel in Australia.
There is no cheap way.



So my understanding from your reply is that you will not need to obtain a PPL fixed wing to do IFR ? you are able to do a minimum 10 hours then cross credit ? and then do 20 hours in an approved helicopter sim plus the 10 hours in a seifr capable machine ?

sorry for all the questions just trying to break it down as best I can , so far this seems the most particle way

Thanks


The answer is it depends. Most schools will have an approved training syllabus from Casa, so you will have to check if dual hours flown elsewhere in an aero plane will count for their syllabus. Mike Becker can probably add more definitive info on this point.



Ok , i might give them a bell,
Do Australian MEIFR AND SEIFR transfer back to your kiwi CPLH ?

Thanks
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havick
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Re: NZ IFR RATINGS

Postby havick » Thu Nov 24 2016, 02:05

Not sure. I was under the impression that TTMRA only let you swap your quals over once. Anything gained after the initial ttmra swap would have to undergo a flight test in the opposite country, but don't quote me on that.

Rotorlift, PHS and I think Helistar in Adelaide offer instrument ratings in AS355 or BK117's. Kestrel can do instrument ratings but the only IFR machine they currently have on hand is a B412 which is probably outside your budget.

Rotorlift probably has the most 'exercised' course and is a known quantity.
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kiwiflyer
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Re: NZ IFR RATINGS

Postby kiwiflyer » Thu Nov 24 2016, 03:50

The Casa instrument ratings transfer back to NZ no prob under the TTMRA.
No you don't need a ppl FW instrument rating for the FW instrument hrs to count.
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havick
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Re: NZ IFR RATINGS

Postby havick » Thu Nov 24 2016, 03:58

kiwiflyer wrote:The Casa instrument ratings transfer back to NZ no prob under the TTMRA.
No you don't need a ppl FW instrument rating for the FW instrument hrs to count.


So if you have already swapped your Aussie license under the TTMRA, let's say purely VFR license. Then after the fact go and get yourself an Aussie IFR ticket then you can add that to you Kiwi license previously swapped over under the TTMRA?

I'm probably wrong as it's been a while since I looked at it, but when I read the regs a couple of years ago I was of the understanding it's a one shot wonder? I.e. Once you swap your license over, what ever is currently on it transfers across but not subsequently gained quals?
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Evil Twin
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Re: NZ IFR RATINGS

Postby Evil Twin » Thu Nov 24 2016, 04:14

TTMRA can be done multiple times however, your medical is only recognised once.
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havick
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Re: NZ IFR RATINGS

Postby havick » Thu Nov 24 2016, 04:27

Evil Twin wrote:TTMRA can be done multiple times however, your medical is only recognised once.


Ok good deal, I knew there was something that was only a one time deal.
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kiwiflyer
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Re: NZ IFR RATINGS

Postby kiwiflyer » Thu Nov 24 2016, 08:48

Yes you can swap ratings back and forth between Australia and NZ under TTMRA as long as you meet the requirements for the particular rating in whichever country.
This Instrument rating is no prob, get a Australian instrument rating and it goes straight onto your NZ licence(through the application process and a fee of course) then you have to do a instrument renewal flight test in NZ before you can use it.
Low_Level_Hell
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Re: NZ IFR RATINGS

Postby Low_Level_Hell » Thu Nov 24 2016, 09:40

kiwiflyer wrote:Yes you can swap ratings back and forth between Australia and NZ under TTMRA as long as you meet the requirements for the particular rating in whichever country.
This Instrument rating is no prob, get a Australian instrument rating and it goes straight onto your NZ licence(through the application process and a fee of course) then you have to do a instrument renewal flight test in NZ before you can use it.


so far it seems to be easier to do it in Australia,
the nz caa IR syllabus is pretty hard to understand and still not sure if you can evan cross credit
ifr fixed wing hours etc, would love to do it in kiwi land but they do make things pretty difficult

thanks heaps guys for all of the knowledge and thoughts, greatly appreciated
kiwiflyer
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Re: NZ IFR RATINGS

Postby kiwiflyer » Thu Nov 24 2016, 20:07

Yes you can cross credit FW to RW in NZ just as you can in Australia. The NZ process is just the same just not really anyone set up properly in NZ to do it, at a realistic price anyway.
But you are right Australia is the place to do it, the schools are all set up for it.
Rotorlift in Tasmainia as already mentioned would be my pick.
You can still do the FW time in NZ and then just the Heli time over there if it worked out like that.
Low_Level_Hell
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Re: NZ IFR RATINGS

Postby Low_Level_Hell » Fri Nov 25 2016, 00:58

kiwiflyer wrote:Yes you can cross credit FW to RW in NZ just as you can in Australia. The NZ process is just the same just not really anyone set up properly in NZ to do it, at a realistic price anyway.
But you are right Australia is the place to do it, the schools are all set up for it.
Rotorlift in Tasmainia as already mentioned would be my pick.
You can still do the FW time in NZ and then just the Heli time over there if it worked out like that.



That defiantly seems to be the most logical way to do it , just wanting confirmation from the flight schools,
then i will hopefully be able to start actioning it.

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