R44 I or II Lease / Cross hire Rates (Amended)

[Australian Made]

I've been tinkering with the idea of opening up a small helicopter company on the east coast of Australia. Would someone be able to please tell me from their experience on how much per hour it is to Lease / Cross Hire a R44. Please PM me. Cheers (My apologies, my previous post had stated operating off someones AOC (meaning putting a business proposal forward to my current employer) The operation would be in part ownership with my present company in close conjunction with my current Chief Pilot.

[CYHeli]

It's illegal to operate off someone's AOC unless you are an employee of that company.

[CollectiveIssues]

AUSTRALIAN MADE...There's already enough operators cutting corners and illegally running off someone else's AOC on the East Coast of Australia.
If you are serious, and don't want CASA breathing down your neck, I would suggest you apply for an AOC of your own... Wow shock horror I hear you say... But guess what, that's the way it needs to be done, and I am sick to death of people like you that want to pop your head up and run a business by taking short cuts.

[Mongrel Dog]

[CYHeli]

Link to my comment above.

From time to time, issues arise about the use of Franchise AOC arrangements under which an AOC holder allows another person (who does not hold an AOC) to use the privileges of that AOC. This ruling states CASA’s position on the use of Franchised AOCs.

[SuperF]

Australian Made,

make sure you hire the 44 from someone that is miles away from where you want to operate, pop the fuse on the hubbo, check for other hour clocks, in the engine bay, and down the tailboom are favourite places to put them... dont fly in controlled airspace, or if you do, use someone elses rego. beg, borrow, steal an AOC, or just dont worry about it at all. just start with a PPL, if you dont have a CPL, then the lawyers cant take it off you.

also get into Ag work, and passenger transport, with no training or oversight, take cash only, and tell the farmers/passengers that they have to load themsleves, as obviously you cant afford staff.

Winge like buggery about the Old Boys network when you finally get potted, and CA$A slap you with a $500 fine after operating, and undercutting everyone for the last 4 years, thats if you havent killed yourself and others in the meantime.

not sure how long you would last in OZ, but over here in NZ thats a standard business plan for most new startups...

[Ben Slocombe]

He hasn't mentioned using anyone else's AOC. How do you know he isn't planning on getting his own?

How about giving him some advice on the question he asked and if you don't have a clue then don't bother posting crap.

[shortone]

You've already gone wrong with a 44

[CYHeli]

Ben he edited his post at 1359.
Prior to that he was wanting to piggyback off someone else's AOC, until it was pointed out it wasn't a good idea.
Not sure if everyone can see when a poster edits a post or just us Mods.

[toey]

Spot on Ben

[helothere]

Australian Made, there is a saying that goes "How do you make a small fortune in aviation? Start with a big one". That said, every operator starts somewhere. If you feel you have an opportunity then get into it. Just do it by the book and don't try to be the cheapest bestest Helicopter Operator on the East coast and don't try to cut corners. As the above posters are alluding to, you will need an AOC (Air Operators Certificate) if you are to proceed. Have a look on the CASA site for more info.

[CollectiveIssues]

CYHeli... Good to see you're on the same page as me...Australian Made did say he wanted to use someone elses AOC, BUT quickly edited his post once he realised that he was ignorant of how AOC's work, and how he just can't go and "borrow one" . I think we may have scared him off.. Just makes me scared on how many "dreamers" are out there that actually are operating commercially without one??

[arrrj]

Mongrel,

That IS the funniest post I have ever seen !

Nice way to end the week.

Arrrj

PS _ surely this topic is a wind-up ?

[helothere]

Mongrel,

That IS the funniest post I have ever seen !

Nice way to end the week.

Arrrj

PS _ surely this topic is a wind-up ?

I had a chuckle too. I've added popcorn as a smilie... Thanks Mongrel!

LOL.

[Mongrel Dog]

Mongrel,

That IS the funniest post I have ever seen !

Nice way to end the week.

Arrrj

PS _ surely this topic is a wind-up ?

Thanks. I thought if fitting given how I thought the thread would go.
I wasn't disappointed!

[Always_Upright]

Morning Slappers
There seams to be an underlying point, to this topic, of keen aviators trying to get some work.
On a few occasions I have come across new pilots that will do anything to get a job. When unsuccessful in finding work they opt to offer an AOC holder a deal to start charter etc.
Instead of targeting enthusiasm from over eager slappers, we all should put our minds together to apply industry thinking to find ways to bring in the new wave of commercial pilots!
We all seam to forget that we were there once, possibly in better times with more jobs available!
Just my two cents......
Australian Made if you are thinking of going it alone, prepare for stress and disappointment. I would suggest working with a CP and use them as a mentor, be patient and work hard.
It take time!

AU

[Jamie]

I'm not going to join the lynch mob, which not surprisingly for BS includes some mods, but simply answer your question -

The last time I was involved with cross hiring a 44 it was $500 / hr.

Nobody is born with the knowledge of civil aviation rules and as you now know, this is definitely not the avenue for asking for advice.

[CYHeli]

An enthusiastic pilot will always find work. If they want to start up a new business then go for it.
As has been said before, how to make a small fortune in aviation? start with a large one. Why do they loose money? Because they don't know what they are doing. They need to get a job with a company and learn the ropes first, or waste their time and money. Learn the rules. Learn business. There is more to flying than just holding a licence.

Ben, Jamie and others, have you ever told a mate, "Don't go home that way, there's a booze bus." Or anything similar where you tried to keep a mate out of trouble. I'm not part of a lynch mob, I'm just trying to point out to someone, AOC borrowing? Don't go that way, you'll get in the sh!t.

Australian Made has more lessons to learn before he tries to set up a company. He's obviously asking the right questions, from the right people and I assume that he has also asked at his school for ideas. Developing ideas is very hard. You can't say much without burning it and having someone else come in an take all the glory. And Cash.

The original aviation rock and a hard place. Sorry mate, but you need more experience, or get into business with the person who does have more business experience. Sit on your idea for a while. Chances are if no one has already gone there, its because it didn't work, or they haven't thought of it. It's time will come.

As for me not helping younger guys, I've arranged cross country ferries of R44 for low hour guys. And I mean cross country; Toowoomba to Perth. I was also contacted by a local businessman here who was looking for a pilot for an R44 for two days, private work. My ex-students who weren't flying full time were either busy at their other jobs or not current. So an instructor did the job, cash in hand. I call that trying to give them work. And the guy who is not current has two kids under two and it's not his time. But his time will come.

Finally Australian Made, if you want to edit your post, go for it. But make a new post somewhere that you have changed the specs. It will hold credibility. There's no such thing as a dumb question, but maturity will dictate how you respond to the answer.

[KNOW NUFFEN]

Or ...NO AOC...,No Aircraft....,No staff... ,No business plan...,No understanding of the Rules ....Know nothing.
KN

[CYHeli]

Australian Made, nice amendment. I do wish you luck.

We need a thriving helicopter industry in this country.