Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

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Fill-level
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Fill-level » Wed Feb 19 2020, 09:33

Flight training for an IFR rating and “real IMC” flying are 2 completely different things, as previously stated.

Lodging a IFR flight plan and flying in CAVOK days and nights is very common in the USA.

I’ve flown with some CFI 2’s and they have never flown near a cloud , never mind inside it.

Depends if you want a cornflakes box instrument rating
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skypig
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby skypig » Wed Feb 19 2020, 12:48

Very different in the US, as far as I understand. I’ve never flown there.

In Australia you can do all the IF training you want, in a suitably equipped VFR certified AC, in VMC.

To fly under the IFR, you require an IFR certified machine, and a qualified and current IFR rated pilot.
To do an Instrument rating test, you need to fly under the IFR.
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Seagull » Wed Feb 19 2020, 13:52

^^^

What Skyping said.

The machine is not certified for flight in IMC. You CANT fly it IFR. End of story.

You can, however, fly it VFR and conduct instrument training in VMC. Plenty of FW places doing that now.

You are required to file an IFR flight plan to get an Instrument rating. One of the requirements of filing IFR is that your aircraft and it’s crew meet the requirements to operate in IMC. Can’t do that if the machines type certificate is limited to flight in VMC...

That said, these 44s could be a lower cost way to train for Instrument ratings (the fixed wing guys do it is some pretty sketchy machines :shock: ) but when it comes to test day, your examiner won’t be taking you up unless it’s in a certified IFR machine. Like a jetty.

Really where the savings could be made here is in simulators. If we had better, cheaper sims then we would be able to do the 20 hrs in them and transfer skills to a similar configured aircraft for a huge reduction in overall cost. Becker’s was a long way down that path, it would be great to see them back in the civil market!! How about the sweet VR thing that Aeropower are growing?? Maybe Life flight could get into the game and offer a Sim only course at a reasonable price. All you need is a 139 type rating... oh wait...

Instrument ratings, why is it so hard... a question for another day and thread :lol:
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Chang739 » Wed Feb 19 2020, 22:37

Interesting discussion guys, definitely thought provoking for newbies like me.

The last part about sims is interesting, the technology and software is mature and cheap enough nowadays. Anyone can make a realistic VR simulator setup at home for a few grand. I guess the hurdle is the 'certified' part which I'm assuming blows the economics out of the water, otherwise every single flight school would have one.
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Yakking » Wed Feb 19 2020, 22:43

So we're all arguing the same thing now:-)



Seagull wrote: Really where the savings could be made here is in simulators. If we had better, cheaper sims then we would be able to do the 20 hrs in them and transfer skills to a similar configured aircraft for a huge reduction in overall cost. Becker’s was a long way down that path, it would be great to see them back in the civil market!! How about the sweet VR thing that Aeropower are growing?? Maybe Life flight could get into the game and offer a Sim only course at a reasonable price. All you need is a 139 type rating... oh wait...

Instrument ratings, why is it so hard... a question for another day and thread :lol:


I'm pretty sure there are flight schools out there with simulator packages, that are already doing that. I know PHS are and I think HeliWest are/were for a time. I am sure there are others, but haven't looked into it.

Times have changed; A mate of mine who is currently trying to make the leap across from VFR to IFR is being quoted in the vicinity of $80k for an IR. Something which I was "given" by a company when they hired me (close to ten years ago).
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby havick » Wed Feb 19 2020, 23:37

Yakking wrote:So we're all arguing the same thing now:-)



Seagull wrote: Really where the savings could be made here is in simulators. If we had better, cheaper sims then we would be able to do the 20 hrs in them and transfer skills to a similar configured aircraft for a huge reduction in overall cost. Becker’s was a long way down that path, it would be great to see them back in the civil market!! How about the sweet VR thing that Aeropower are growing?? Maybe Life flight could get into the game and offer a Sim only course at a reasonable price. All you need is a 139 type rating... oh wait...

Instrument ratings, why is it so hard... a question for another day and thread :lol:


I'm pretty sure there are flight schools out there with simulator packages, that are already doing that. I know PHS are and I think HeliWest are/were for a time. I am sure there are others, but haven't looked into it.

Times have changed; A mate of mine who is currently trying to make the leap across from VFR to IFR is being quoted in the vicinity of $80k for an IR. Something which I was "given" by a company when they hired me (close to ten years ago).


Think there's a lot of guessing going on there on your part. Heliwest most definitely did NOT file IFR flight plans for training in a non IFR certified aircraft. Some Instrument training in VFR certified aircraft was being conducted but only in VMC and on a VFR flight plan if in controlled airspace or no flight plan at all if OCTA. Same same when I was at Kestrel etc. Some training flights towards an IPC were also conducted in an IFR BO-105, BK117 or a B412 as a work up to the flight test and also covered some portion of the type rating training if the student wasn’t typed on the aircraft.

I'm in the USA now and I'm not aware of anyone here filing IFR flight plans in VMC with VFR certified aircraft. The main difference being here in the USA that an instrument rating or ATP test can be carried out in a non IFR certified aircraft in VMC. When I converted my Aussie ATPL to an FAA ATP, I did it in an R22 on a VFR flight plan but still shot approaches somewhere in Florida.
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Yakking » Thu Feb 20 2020, 01:53

havick wrote:Think there's a lot of guessing going on there on your part. Heliwest most definitely did NOT file IFR flight plans for training in a non IFR certified aircraft. Some Instrument training in VFR certified aircraft was being conducted but only in VMC and on a VFR flight plan if in controlled airspace or no flight plan at all if OCTA. Same same when I was at Kestrel etc. Some training flights towards an IPC were also conducted in an IFR BO-105, BK117 or a B412 as a work up to the flight test and also covered some portion of the type rating training if the student wasn’t typed on the aircraft.


I think you misread the post.

I'm pretty sure there are flight schools out there with simulator packages, that are already doing that. I know PHS are and I think HeliWest are/were for a time. I am sure there are others, but haven't looked into it.


No need to file IFR flight plans when you're in a simulator;-)
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby skypig » Thu Feb 20 2020, 10:48

I did a self funded FW IR as a step towards my goal of flying IFR Helicopters. (A scary number of years ago)
Even with a PPL-A already, it was a significant investment. I remember doing some night “X Countries” to get sufficient Night PIC. I can hardly land a plank in the day time... the things we do!

I’d think dual IF training in a FW, even without a FW licence maybe, would be an option to save money if a certified SIM wasn’t available. (For the IF time that doesn’t have to be in a Helicopter.)

Still have to be able to pass the flight test....In a certified IFR Helicopter, for which a command endorsement is held.

Never easy, or cheap.
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Rotorpilot » Sat Feb 22 2020, 21:31

So did you end up finding an R44 to x-hire? pop;
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Hardman » Sat Feb 22 2020, 22:00

Well that escalated quickly!

Still looking- Thanks for asking :lol:
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Flyboi » Mon Mar 23 2020, 09:33

Hi just wondering Were you still after a 44?
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Hardman » Tue Mar 24 2020, 01:38

PM sent. Cheeers

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