Helmets

[everlast]

Will do, I know you can take the tint visor out and replace it with a yellow or clear. But the helmet looks identical, except it looks like there are three screws that mount the visor protector onto the helmet I think, just going by a picture.

[nana yabiznus]

Personally, I think it's a case of "horses for courses" or risk management.

If I was to wear steel cap boots everywhere I went, I could be quite confident that i would not stub my toe, right.
But if I'm only walking along the beach, what's the chances of me stubbing my toe anyway? And how much would my decision to wear steel caps everywhere impact on my current situation, comfort, etc...

I for one, could easily see how someone who may or may not be familiar with helicopters, may feel left out or vulnerable if the pilot of the machine they are entering for a joyflight is wearing a helmet and they don't get to wear one. Where's mine?

Should we all have to wear helmets in our cars when driving? We could have an accident, and if we do a helmet might save us from an injury which we may or may not have otherwise sustained.

Having said that, in my 30 plus years of riding motorbikes, I have always worn at least a helmet and wouldn't ride without one due to the increased risks involved.

Nana

[Banjamin James]

Should we all have to wear helmets in our cars when driving? We could have an accident, and if we do a helmet might save us from an injury which we may or may not have otherwise sustained.

Nana

I doubt anyone here would argue against helmet's saving lives in car accident's.

Take seatbelts though. Less than 40 years ago most people accessed the risk low enough that wearing a seatbelt was impractical. Where they right? Well obviously the majority where as they weren't killed, but would any sane person do the same now?

[nana yabiznus]

Banjamin James wrote

I doubt anyone here would argue against helmet's saving lives in car accident's.

Ahh yes that may be so, but do they wear one? Do you?

If not, why not? It may save your life one day.

Nana

[Heli]

OK, so I drive my nice Australian approved car, with side impact protection, air bags (6? 8? Side curtains? etc), crumple zones, all and any internal protrusions such as steering wheel, rear view mirror, made to give way to soft pink bodies, all give plenty of passive safety protection.

Anti lock braking, electronic stability control, run flat tyres, all contribute to enormous active safety protection. The chances of a survivable accident are exceptionally high these days. Helmet? What for?

Now I get into my new(ish) helicopter, probably based on a 20 year old design standard. Flimsy fuselage, the crumple zone stops at the squashed body. Air bags: what? Deformable interior fittings: maybe they'll deform eventually, but usually after the body parts just get in the way. Interior fittings: rotor brake next to the driver's skull, fire extinguisher handily mounted behind the left temple, 212/412 wiper motors with a little bit of foam rubber to stop day to day knocks, totally useless as protection in a hard landing.

Do I need to go on?

[Banjamin James]

Banjamin James wrote

I doubt anyone here would argue against helmet's saving lives in car accident's.

Ahh yes that may be so, but do they wear one? Do you?

If not, why not? It may save your life one day.

Nana

Do you really want to make an argument about this? Are you saying a Helmet is too much effort to bother with? That's the point I was making about seat belts.

And finally are you a professional pilot? Professional car driver's wear helmet's. Infact HANS neck devices are widely used as well (hmm there is a thought).

Heli, reminds me of the days cars had metal in the sunshades. Have a crash and the sunshade was likely to give you a lobotomy. Steering wheels and the shaft didn't give way either, so you ended up missing the top of your head, and a heart as flat as a pancake.
It took some brave people to speak out about it at the time and force regulation changes.

[nana yabiznus]

OK, so I drive my nice Australian approved car, with side impact protection, air bags (6? 8? Side curtains? etc), crumple zones, all and any internal protrusions such as steering wheel, rear view mirror, made to give way to soft pink bodies, all give plenty of passive safety protection.

Anti lock braking, electronic stability control, run flat tyres, all contribute to enormous active safety protection. The chances of a survivable accident are exceptionally high these days. Helmet? What for?

Lucky you. I wish I had a flash car like yours. Where do I start. Maybe I could start by quoting myself

Personally, I think it's a case of "horses for courses" or risk management.

Don't remember seeing too many joyflights conducted in 212s or 412s.

And finally are you a professional pilot? Professional car driver's wear helmet's. Infact HANS neck devices are widely used as well (hmm there is a thought).

Lookout, another newbie expert coming through.

As far as I know, the taxi drivers , bus drivers and couriers (professional drivers) around here don't wear them yet!

Nana

[Banjamin James]

I'm not an expert, I'm just asking questions of the industry.

If you feel threatened or uncomfortable that I, a "newbie" am comparing the industry to other's then get over it.

[JT]

Nana, comparing helicopters to cars is a BAD example.... try comparing helicopters to motorbikes.... better example!!!

Ease up on the newbies...... everyone was once in there position... most still are!!!!!!!!!

[nana yabiznus]

Couldn't be bothered explaining myself again. YET!

Nothing at all against newbies JT, I don't like ANYONE trying to tell me how to think. We need to accept that we all have a right to differing opinions and respect that right.

I do however prefer to take advice from someone who has at least some experience in the field of discussion and it really pisses me off how quick everyone is to shoot down anyone with a differing opinion to theirs.

RE READ MY POST

Nana

Banjamin James writes:

Do you really want to make an argument about this? Are you saying a Helmet is too much effort to bother with? That's the point I was making about seat belts.

Argument? No. I would have prefered an open and honest discussion where 2 intelligent parties (or more) can debate a topic whilst respecting each others differing points of view, hopefully for the benefit of many.

Nana

[Porno]

NANA/Banjamin

FACT: SKYDIVERS CHOOSE TO WEAR HELMETS... WILL IT SAVE THERE LIFE WHEN THE PARACHUTE DOESN'T OPEN... NO! THEN WHY WEAR IT? IN THE EVENT OF AN INCIDENT THERE CHANCES ARE FAR FAR FAR GREATER OF SURVIVAL.

FACT: HELICOPTER PILOTS WEAR HELMETS


FACT: HELMETS SAVE LIVES

[Banjamin James]

Well rather than make a new thread, and as this one is getting a little heated I thought I'd divert the discussion a little.

Okay everyone is familiar with the HANS device and the effectiveness it has in preventing a basilar skull fracture, Kubica's crash in F1 last year was a notable example of the safety in F1 today (okay the track is not so safe at that point).
For those that missed it you can see it here
http://dailycarvideos.com/2007/06/10/f1-montreal-kubica-crash/


Could a plane/heli device be made? The biggest concern is acheiving greater lateral movement during use.

[Ray McCooney]

The last time I was at a training school for a BFR, I noticed lots of students wearing helmets, mostly ringers though but still quite alot.
Cheers
Ray

[Jabberwocky]

Benjamin, I don't think a HANS type system would work in a helicopter. They work in race cars as they are travelling in (mostly) 2D and have sudden deceleration impacts, hence a need to stop your head being ripped off of your shoulders. In a helicopter, I don't think that type of injury is as common, as the accidents seem to be more of the higher time period type e.g. rolls, skidding etc. And if they are sudden, you have more to worry about unfortunately.
In motor racing, you generally are only looking out the front of the vehicle with very little sideways movement, obviously much different to a helicopter.

[Heli]

HANS:

BMW Motorcycles are now selling a neck support/restraint for motorcyclists. With the head movement needed for motorcycling, I'd suspect that it could be easily adapted for helicopter use.

Just a thought!

[Banjamin James]

Jabberwocky. Yeah I agree more lateral movement of the head is needed for Heli work. But is it really that different when it come to fatal crashes?

Shouldn't death from a rolling or skidding aircraft with no sudden deceleration be unnaceptable?

As for situations where the a HANS type device might be useful, sure it's small and involve's nose first impact's. But I guess I'm asking pilot's here to think about it and provide their thoughts.

Heli, yeah that's why I bring up this issue, these devices are popping up for everything.

Edit, here is a video demonstrating the Leatt Brace (sit through the first minute atleast)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jsSxlDvq7Q

It requires a full face helmet though.

[hand in pants]

Here's another opinion.
Why not get into your joyflight/charter helicopter wearing cotton pants and shirt (not flame proof but won't melt onto your body) put on a headset (for comfort, communications, noise reduction) and leather shoes/boots and do the job. Bet there is a good chance you and your passengers will get back in one piece (unless of course you are a crappy pilot in which case you should still be driving a bus, not flying a helicopter).
This thread has gone from the sensible to the stupid (blunt but true).
If you want to wear a helmet, go ahead, but don't expect everybody to agree, or for that matter, don't expect your boss to let you turn up to a charter job with VIP passengers paying a high price to fly in his helicopter wearing a flight suit , gloves and helmet. For me, you wouldn't be let out near the helicopter.
When the risk is increased such as powerline inspections, lifting or fire work, I wouldn't let you near the helicopter unless you were in the correct gear, such as the flight suit, helmet and gloves. I would have paid for them for you to wear on those kind of jobs.
Don't recall seeing many aeroplane pilots running about in helmets and can't remember seeing any qantas pilots flight suiting up with their helmets. Don't think they would go too well with a bird strike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And before some of you slip into me, it's MY opinion, not yours, mine. And I'm entitled to it.

[jane ferguson]

I couldn't agree with you more h.i.p.
My earlier post was written from a Devil's Advocate perspective, designed to demonstrate to the "helmets at all times" fans here, that any half-smart tourist or charter passenger would raise hell if they thought they were getting the short end of the safety stick by seeing their pilot strapping on the helmet while their own heads were bare.
And they would then wonder if the risks of this flight may not outweigh the benefits.
This you do not want happening, surely.

Life is full of risks, and just as there is a slim chance we will have a fatal accident in our car on any given day, or our commercial jet just may crash...we mostly know that we've got a better chance of being okay than not.
So we drive and we fly.

Similarly, any punter getting into a heli for a circuit around the Apostles, or Seal Rock, or Sydney Harbour or a trip to the races needs to know that the pilot is 100% confident that they will get up, get there, and get back down with no problem.
If said pilot straps on a crash hat, that's not 100% confidence, whether you want to hear that or not.

And I know that motorbike riders (and pillions) all wear helmets but more people crash on motorbikes than in helis...they are inherently MUCH less safe, bottom line.

But all those here who reckon that on commuter or tourist flights you can just say to the pax "I'm wearing my helmet and you can cop it or get out" really need to re-examine that view IMHO.

[Banjamin James]

Why not go a step further and ban the pilot from wearing a seatbelt. He won't need it as know's 100% he won't crash.

[jane ferguson]

Seat belts are not just to prevent injury in crashes.
They also keep you in your seat in the event of turbulence, which happens all the time.
BJ you accused someone earlier of being argumentative but you are making it plain that you are on a helmet campaign and not really willing to brook any other point of view.