Logging Of Flight Time

[Mick Cullen]

Hugh has passed the ball and here is the definition directly from the CASA website:

Flight Time
means, in the case of a heavier-than-air aircraft, the total time from when the aircraft first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking-off until the moment at which it comes to rest after landing. This is synonymous with 'chock to chock', 'block to block' or 'push back to block' time.
In the case of a helicopter, whenever helicopter rotors are engaged for the purpose of a flight, the time will be included in the flight time.
....

Gang can anyone point me to the current reference or webpage that has the text Peter has bolded above?

CASA website glossary seems to have dropped any reference to helicopters - "In the case of heavier-than-air aircraft, the total time from when the aircraft first moves under its own power for the purpose of a flight until the moment at which it comes to rest on completion of the flight."

Both CASA website search and and a Google search using site:casa.gov.au don't turn up anything for "helicopter rotors are engaged for the purpose of a flight"

Part 61 isn't any further help. The Dictionary has 'flight time has the meaning given by regulation 61.010'. 61.010 then breaks out into PIC, co-pilot, ICUS etc but doesn't cover a definition of flight time.

(Don't want to kick off the maintenance ground run is flight time or not argument Just looking for a current reference to rotor engagement vs aircraft first moves.)

[Niko]

Hugh has passed the ball and here is the definition directly from the CASA website:

Flight Time
means, in the case of a heavier-than-air aircraft, the total time from when the aircraft first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking-off until the moment at which it comes to rest after landing. This is synonymous with 'chock to chock', 'block to block' or 'push back to block' time.
In the case of a helicopter, whenever helicopter rotors are engaged for the purpose of a flight, the time will be included in the flight time.
....

Gang can anyone point me to the current reference or webpage that has the text Peter has bolded above?

CASA website glossary seems to have dropped any reference to helicopters - "In the case of heavier-than-air aircraft, the total time from when the aircraft first moves under its own power for the purpose of a flight until the moment at which it comes to rest on completion of the flight."

Both CASA website search and and a Google search using site:casa.gov.au don't turn up anything for "helicopter rotors are engaged for the purpose of a flight"

Part 61 isn't any further help. The Dictionary has 'flight time has the meaning given by regulation 61.010'. 61.010 then breaks out into PIC, co-pilot, ICUS etc but doesn't cover a definition of flight time.

(Don't want to kick off the maintenance ground run is flight time or not argument Just looking for a current reference to rotor engagement vs aircraft first moves.)

It’s in the definitions of Part 61 Mick
http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth ... 1.010.html

Just search ‘blades’ and it will scroll you down to the definition of flight time in a helicopter

I’ve copied and pasted it bellow
duration" , of a flight, means:

(a) for a flight in an aeroplane or gyroplane--the time from the moment the aircraft begins moving, whether or not under its own power, in preparation for flight until the moment it comes to rest at the end of the flight; or

(b) for a flight in a helicopter or powered-lift aircraft--the time from the moment the aircraft's rotor blades start turning until the moment the rotor blades stop turning after the aircraft comes to rest at the end of the flight; or

(c) for a flight in an airship--the time from the moment the airship is released from its mooring until the moment it is tethered at the end of the flight; or

(d) for a flight in a glider--the time from the moment the glider first begins moving in preparation for flight, whether being towed or not, until the moment it comes to rest at the end of the flight.

[huey]

Hi Mick

61.010 Definitions for Part 61

Scroll down to

duration, of a flight, means:
(a) for a flight in an aeroplane or gyroplane—the time from the moment the aircraft begins moving, whether or not under its own power, in preparation for flight until the moment it comes to rest at the end of the flight; or
(b) for a flight in a helicopter or powered‑lift aircraft—the time from the moment the aircraft’s rotor blades start turning until the moment the rotor blades stop turning after the aircraft comes to rest at the end of the flight; or
(c) for a flight in an airship—the time from the moment the airship is released from its mooring until the moment it is tethered at the end of the flight; or
(d) for a flight in a glider—the time from the moment the glider first begins moving in preparation for flight, whether being towed or not, until the moment it comes to rest at the end of the flight.

Huey

[Twistgrip]

Gday Nico,

Lots of regs flying around

Generally Maintenance release time = skids off skids on / or chocks off chocks on for our wheeled brothers.

Pilot Logbook time = starter on / starter off.

Simple as that .

[Niko]

Gday Nico,

Lots of regs flying around

Generally Maintenance release time = skids off skids on / or wheels off wheels on for our wheeled brothers.

Pilot Logbook time = starter on / starter off.

Simple as that .

He literally asked for Regs. Literally.

[ChicoCheco]

Students wanting to log that extra 2-3 mins (or 10 if windmilling and no FI onboard to engage rotor brake?) And helping it round up to get the hours up cheaper?

[Mick Cullen]

Niko / Huey - '61.010 Definitions for Part 61'
Thank you! Much appreciated.
Yep, so many Regs. Getting harder to find things. I was using Ctrl-F for 'flight time' and missed that.

ChicoCheco prep'ing some Mil-to-Civ material and collecting the references for the different definitions of flight time out there. Text definition differs Mil/Civ/by country as the length of this thread attests too.

[ChicoCheco]

ChicoCheco prep'ing some Mil-to-Civ material and collecting the references for the different definitions of flight time out there. Text definition differs Mil/Civ/by country as the length of this thread attests too.

Wish you had Cabri flock when I was in Brisbane. Plus other stuff working out sooner.
Same end of rotors turning is under EASA as you probably know.

One wee Euro country old CAA comrades were getting their knickers in a twist and bullying me (ridiculing and downright refusing to listen to facts, implying to deny my licensing onwards) about not having UTC take off and landing times. To discontinue my existing logs. That was fixed wing log that does comply with the regs and has the columns, but if it ain't the Jepp JAR FCL it ain't good enough. That 2kg lump I didn't wanna use. They didn't even see my rotary log without UTC time columns.

Between them and CASA, I choose FAA. Not worth converting Heli FI to here anymore. Those PPL conversion docs, CPL conv request form just to sit the law then not processed on time as promised. What a waste of $ and effort..
Where's my stress ball??

[bangequalsbad]

ChicoCheco prep'ing some Mil-to-Civ material and collecting the references for the different definitions of flight time out there. Text definition differs Mil/Civ/by country as the length of this thread attests too.

Wish you had Cabri flock when I was in Brisbane. Plus other stuff working out sooner.
Same end of rotors turning is under EASA as you probably know.

One wee Euro country old CAA comrades were getting their knickers in a twist and bullying me (ridiculing and downright refusing to listen to facts, implying to deny my licensing onwards) about not having UTC take off and landing times. To discontinue my existing logs. That was fixed wing log that does comply with the regs and has the columns, but if it ain't the Jepp JAR FCL it ain't good enough. That 2kg lump I didn't wanna use. They didn't even see my rotary log without UTC time columns.

Between them and CASA, I choose FAA. Not worth converting Heli FI to here anymore. Those PPL conversion docs, CPL conv request form just to sit the law then not processed on time as promised. What a waste of $ and effort..
Where's my stress ball??

What the hell did I just read?
I know they are english words...but...somehow...not.
I always feel that reading your posts is like stepping into a series half way through and having no idea about the context that the current words fit into.
It's baffling.
I pity the circuit traffic in you area.

[Rotorpilot]

ChicoCheco prep'ing some Mil-to-Civ material and collecting the references for the different definitions of flight time out there. Text definition differs Mil/Civ/by country as the length of this thread attests too.

Wish you had Cabri flock when I was in Brisbane. Plus other stuff working out sooner.
Same end of rotors turning is under EASA as you probably know.

One wee Euro country old CAA comrades were getting their knickers in a twist and bullying me (ridiculing and downright refusing to listen to facts, implying to deny my licensing onwards) about not having UTC take off and landing times. To discontinue my existing logs. That was fixed wing log that does comply with the regs and has the columns, but if it ain't the Jepp JAR FCL it ain't good enough. That 2kg lump I didn't wanna use. They didn't even see my rotary log without UTC time columns.

Between them and CASA, I choose FAA. Not worth converting Heli FI to here anymore. Those PPL conversion docs, CPL conv request form just to sit the law then not processed on time as promised. What a waste of $ and effort..
Where's my stress ball??

What the hell did I just read?
I know they are english words...but...somehow...not.
I always feel that reading your posts is like stepping into a series half way through and having no idea about the context that the current words fit into.
It's baffling.
I pity the circuit traffic in you area.

I'm pretty sure it was written in Japanese, got google to translate it, then it was just a matter of cut and paste to bladeslapper....or at least that's how i read it, seams to be missing a few words within the content to allow it to make sense.

[ChicoCheco]

Shall I translate some British slang or phrases to Bushtucka country lingo??
If it doesn't make sense then it's not something you have experienced/dealt with.

Leave that verbal venom for dealing with CASA, please.