RFS 412s

General stuff that gets thrown about when Helicopter Pilots shoot the Breeze.
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Jabberwocky
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RFS 412s

Postby Jabberwocky » Fri Apr 3 2020, 23:31

The introduction of the Black Hawks has been delayed to 2022/23 due to their operational requirements. As an interim arrangement, the NSW Government has approved the NSW RFS purchasing two Bell 412 aircraft. These aircraft are scheduled to come online ahead of the next bush fire season (2020/21) noting the COVID-19 pandemic implications may affect the timing of this.

These aircraft were purchased within the provisions of the NSW Procurement Policy framework.
A supplier under the NSW Panel List was engaged to research and negotiate across the Australian and international markets, in keeping with free trade obligations and ensuring value for money.

In accordance with NSW RFS accreditation under Procurement NSW, an option existed to offer management of the helicopters to current providers (including both rotary and fixed wing).

Following a competitive Request for Quote process with current providers, Coulson Aviation Australia has been awarded the management of both Bell 412 aircraft and will remain in place for the remainder of the contract period. Importantly, Coulson Aviation Australia has now established a base in New South Wales and will be seeking to employ locally based pilots and support crew.


http://rfs.e-newsletter.com.au/pub/pubType/EO/pubID/zzzz5e83cdfc2aa70991/interface.html

pop;
Last edited by Jabberwocky on Sun Apr 5 2020, 00:01, edited 2 times in total.
Sideshow
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Re: RFS 412s

Postby Sideshow » Sat Apr 4 2020, 01:37

There is absolutely no reason they could not use an Aussie company for this. Why the hell would they use a North American operator? This makes no sense.
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havick
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Re: RFS 412s

Postby havick » Sat Apr 4 2020, 02:27

Word has it this contract was sold sourced. I gave no idea how accurate the info is.
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Eric Hunt
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Re: RFS 412s

Postby Eric Hunt » Sat Apr 4 2020, 03:45

Don't expect them to provide 412 EPI, all shiny and new.

Maybe they will buy the original 412 Serial No.1 from Horn Island.
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havick
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Re: RFS 412s

Postby havick » Sat Apr 4 2020, 03:51

Eric Hunt wrote:Don't expect them to provide 412 EPI, all shiny and new.

Maybe they will buy the original 412 Serial No.1 from Horn Island.


That’s not possible since it was pancaked.
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choppermech1986
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Re: RFS 412s

Postby choppermech1986 » Sat Apr 4 2020, 04:09

Importantly, Coulson Aviation Australia has now established a base in New South Wales and will be seeking to employ locally based pilots and support crew.


I call BS. They had an ad for "Pilots and Engineers" in Aviation Trader recently and when I clicked on it out of curiosity, it went to a website where I had to hunt to find the Careers Page, I went through all the jobs, 20 or so, and not one would be applicable to a pilot or engineer working in Australia. They were all based out of Port Alberni or the Pacific NW of the US. It looked like a poor effort to display some kind of half arsed attempt at hiring Australians. How the RFS got so far into bed with the folks who pushed the Martin Mars as a fantastic firefighting machine (and recently had a crew likely CFIT) is beyond me but really, nothing should surprise me about those clowns in Bankstown.

One can only hope that the machines are VH registered and that CASA doesn't just continue to hand out AME licenses to foreigners when Aussie apprentices have to jump through a million hoops (and pay a small fortune to a third party provider like Aviation Australia). If they're N or C registered, I'd be ropable as that's not a level tendering playing field at all, what with CASA's ridiculous bureaucracy. Either way, I'd be very surprised if they they employ many Aussie guys when qualified ex Military Yanks are close to half the price and can easily be used in North America for the rest of the year.

Australian operators, I'd implore you to get some of Dad's money, pay your AHIA subs and call the CEO and your local member of parliament and tell them how stupid this all is.
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Hello Pilots
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Re: RFS 412s

Postby Hello Pilots » Sat Apr 4 2020, 05:16

Just like the state of other industries, bye bye little guy, hello corporation.
Bet it was an under the table deal. RFSs tongue is so far up Coulsons date.
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Re: RFS 412s

Postby godfather007 » Sat Apr 4 2020, 06:17

If all the above is true.
WTF..
Altho, could we have expected anything else from our Gov and half assed attached agencies?
Common sense and local support is obviously not a thought process to them.
Allowing over sea seas operators to set up here is standard due to saving $ and bonuses to those who make the decision base on beating budgets.
We may as well be run by communists.
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Re: RFS 412s

Postby emuman_30 » Sat Apr 4 2020, 09:20

After the last fire season, it was shown again that the RFS should not and are not capable of managing aircraft. NSW and Australia in general need an a department solely for aircraft deployment, management, finances and tracking. The RFS are for managing voluntees and ground works and should now hand over the aviayion side to another department. This deal should have been put on hold with evrything going on at the moment and concideration should now be given to Loacal contractors.
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Re: RFS 412s

Postby SuperF » Sat Apr 4 2020, 09:23

well, I'm from NZ, and i think this is BS. It should have gone to an Oz company, if it was McD, Kestrel, or someone a bit smaller, there is the capability in Oz to run a couple of 412s on fires.
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Re: RFS 412s

Postby Sideshow » Sat Apr 4 2020, 09:54

Does anyone know anyone in any high places with any balls that would actually raise this issue?

While they are at it whip up a spread sheet and some bullet points illustrating how useless the LATs and VLATs are compared to virtually anything else. Maybe throw in a couple of pie charts. I love pie charts.
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Re: RFS 412s

Postby Evil Twin » Sat Apr 4 2020, 12:05

Unfortunately any operation such as this should be run by the private sector. Govt departments have no idea how to operate competitively in this space and generally their management are more interested in empire building than getting the task completed. There are so many local (Australian) operations capable of running a couple of 412's on fires, that there is no defensible reason to give this contract to an offshore/overseas provider.

Sh1t, if I could muster the backing I'd be buying a couple of ex-offshore 332's and going nuts on this. Just look at what they're doing in Canada and Europe with them, Cheap and powerful, almost better than a Blackhawk. :wink:

and Eric the EPI is like a 60 year old sex worker. It may have the bolt-ons, liposuction, face lift, botox, a tummy tuck and a tightening but it's still a 60 year old frame trying to be young again.
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Re: RFS 412s

Postby UnObvious » Sat Apr 4 2020, 13:31

Curious if anyone actually saw this tender before it was awarded?

I've heard from a few medium operators in aus now that didn't even know it existed until this announcement... Wondering how "competitive" this request for quote was.
487072
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Re: RFS 412s

Postby 487072 » Sat Apr 4 2020, 19:02

It was a closed tender, invitation only to providers that are already engaged in the same service provision ie. operators that operate RFS-owned aircraft. Of which there are 2. And 1 of the 2 was awarded the contract.
Jimmy Riccard
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Re: RFS 412s

Postby Jimmy Riccard » Sun Apr 5 2020, 00:39

487072 is correct.

It was a closed to tender to existing providers one being an Australian AOC holder.....

But theres more smoke and mirrors afoot here in my opinion. The Blackhawks are still coming. As soon as they are commissioned the BK117’s are to be ‘disposed of’. Now if the company in question is not shoe horned for that supplement to their contract as well then I’ll be........

There’s a take back Australia movement gaining momentum in the aftermath of Covid 19. Why are we not doing the same for the Aviation Sector?

Allan Jones needs to hear about this. The public have no idea what’s going on....

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Re: RFS 412s

Postby Bellringer » Sun Apr 5 2020, 07:11

I saw N reg helicopters flying in Australia with Australian operators during the fires. Are these flown by local pilots? If so do they fly on FAA licences?
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Re: RFS 412s

Postby Gonsky » Sun Apr 5 2020, 07:12

Coulson lost three guys last yr, they could have said they were going to use a soda stream and they still would have got it.

There are 1000's of tenders per yr that have already been sorted yet they still go out, welcome to the world of tenders.

ET why don't you start a go fund me, you should be sorted in no time.

Regards,
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Re: RFS 412s

Postby LHS » Mon Apr 6 2020, 02:46

Jimmy Richard, not sure that they will be able to get rid of the BK's 'IF' they get the ex ADF Blackhawks, they can't use them for troop movements as they are Restricted category. Plus one genius of RFS management has been quoted as saying they "were going to put a winch on either side of the Blackhawks and insert RAFT crews two at a time", that would have been an interesting winch cycle. :roll:
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Evil Twin
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Re: RFS 412s

Postby Evil Twin » Mon Apr 6 2020, 03:12

LHS wrote:Jimmy Richard, not sure that they will be able to get rid of the BK's 'IF' they get the ex ADF Blackhawks, they can't use them for troop movements as they are Restricted category. Plus one genius of RFS management has been quoted as saying they "were going to put a winch on either side of the Blackhawks and insert RAFT crews two at a time", that would have been an interesting winch cycle. :roll:



Didn’t RFS get a dispensation to carry pax as long as they’re crew. You can carry crew on restricted category aircraft. I laughed out loud at the winch on either side idea though.
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DaveL
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Re: RFS 412s

Postby DaveL » Mon Apr 6 2020, 05:36

CASA clearly define the transport of ground based fire fighters as a Charter activity. It’s a slippery slope if they start letting fire fighters be classed as “crew”. What “crew” function are they carrying out onboard the aircraft?

How will this improve aviation safety? If you’re allowed to carry ground based fire fighters in a restricted category Black Hawk why can’t you do it in a restricted category UH-1?

It’s not like there aren’t alternative, normal or transport category aircraft available that are more than capable of carrying out the role.

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