Just a quick question about filling out log books. I cant find anything actually in the regs about procedures for filling our logbooks nor much agreement from pilots I talk to about them. SO questions are as follows
Can you whiteout a log book if you make a mistake?
Can you use ditto marks if your doing the same scenic circuit over and over?
I am under the impression that all flight must have a departure and arrival point marked in the description if as a helicopter this inst an aerodrome can you use a colloquial term here to denote a departure/arrival point?
Any comments or answer would be helpful.
Cheers!
Log Books
- bladepitch
- 3rd Dan
- Posts: 643
- Joined: Jul 2006
Re: Log Books
As a start,
In the front of all log books will be a few pages of General guidance describing definitions of columns and how they should be entered etc....
There is also a conversion graph from minutes to decimals of an hour for flight times.
It clearly states first of that all entries must be in permanent INK.
Personal advice. do not use white out in a log book. if you make in incorrect entry, simply get a ruler and put a neat line in the middle across the entire column and initial it at the end of the line to show that you made the error. make the correct entry on the next line. all mistakes should be clearly visible and it shows that you have nothing to hide in your log book.
In the front of all log books will be a few pages of General guidance describing definitions of columns and how they should be entered etc....
There is also a conversion graph from minutes to decimals of an hour for flight times.
It clearly states first of that all entries must be in permanent INK.
Personal advice. do not use white out in a log book. if you make in incorrect entry, simply get a ruler and put a neat line in the middle across the entire column and initial it at the end of the line to show that you made the error. make the correct entry on the next line. all mistakes should be clearly visible and it shows that you have nothing to hide in your log book.
- Capt Hollywood
- 3rd Dan
- Posts: 841
- Joined: Sep 2006
Re: Log Books
Try this pushrod - CLICK HERE
Or alternatively below is CASR 1998, Volume 2, Subpart 61.345, Personal logbooks—pilots.
I have used whiteout in my logbook a few times over the last 20 years, looks much neater, not that I make that many mistakes. I don't have any reason to think that CASA will audit my logbook, but should they look at it and ask about the whiteout I can scratch off the whiteout and reveal the egregious error! You could always just use an electronic logbook, much easier to correct any mistakes!
61.345 Personal logbooks—pilots
(1) A person who holds a pilot licence, or a certificate of validation of an overseas flight crew licence that is equivalent to a pilot licence, commits an offence if the person does not keep a personal logbook in accordance with this regulation.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(2) The person must record his or her full name and date of birth in the person’s logbook.
(3) The person must, as soon as practicable after completing each flight, record the following information in the person’s logbook for the flight:
(a) the date the flight began;
(b) the type of aircraft;
(c) whether it was a single‑engine or multi‑engine aircraft;
(d) the aircraft’s nationality and registration marks;
(e) the take‑off and landing points for the flight, and for each segment of the flight;
(f) the flight time (if any) flown in each of the following capacities:
(i) pilot in command;
(ii) co‑pilot;
(iii) pilot in command under supervision;
(iv) pilot receiving flight training;
(g) if the person is a flight instructor—any flight time spent exercising the privileges of his or her flight instructor rating;
(h) if the person is a flight examiner—any flight time spent exercising the privileges of his or her flight examiner rating;
(i) whether the flight was by day or night, or both;
(j) any instrument flight time;
(k) whether the person conducted an instrument approach operation and, if so, the type of instrument approach procedure.
(4) The person must, as soon as practicable after completing each simulated flight in a flight simulation training device, record the following information in the person’s logbook for the simulated flight:
(a) the date the simulated flight began;
(b) the type of aircraft represented by the device;
(c) the simulated flight time (if any) performed in each of the following capacities:
(i) pilot in command;
(ii) co‑pilot;
(iii) pilot in command under supervision;
(iv) pilot receiving flight training;
(d) if the person is a flight instructor or simulator instructor—any time spent exercising the privileges of his or her instructor rating;
(e) whether the flight was conducted in simulated day or night conditions, or both;
(f) a description of the simulated flight activity.
The Regs go on to say...
61.365 Production of personal logbooks
(1) CASA may direct the holder of a flight crew licence or certificate of validation to produce the holder’s personal logbook for inspection by CASA.
(2) The holder of a flight crew licence or certificate of validation commits an offence if:
(a) CASA directs the holder to produce his or her personal logbook under subregulation (1); and
(b) the holder does not produce an up to date version of the personal logbook within 7 days after the day the direction is given.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(3) If the holder’s personal logbook is kept in electronic form, a requirement to produce the logbook is met if:
(a) the holder produces a printed copy of the logbook; and
(b) each page is certified by the holder as a true copy of the logbook records set out on the page.
(4) An offence against this regulation is an offence of strict liability.
I've had an Excel logbook for years which I use everyday and then update my written logbook a few times a year. I thought I had to get the printed electronic copy certified by a JP as a copy of the written logbook to count as a legal logbook, apparently not, I can certify a printed copy of the electronic logbook myself.
CH
Or alternatively below is CASR 1998, Volume 2, Subpart 61.345, Personal logbooks—pilots.
I have used whiteout in my logbook a few times over the last 20 years, looks much neater, not that I make that many mistakes. I don't have any reason to think that CASA will audit my logbook, but should they look at it and ask about the whiteout I can scratch off the whiteout and reveal the egregious error! You could always just use an electronic logbook, much easier to correct any mistakes!
61.345 Personal logbooks—pilots
(1) A person who holds a pilot licence, or a certificate of validation of an overseas flight crew licence that is equivalent to a pilot licence, commits an offence if the person does not keep a personal logbook in accordance with this regulation.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(2) The person must record his or her full name and date of birth in the person’s logbook.
(3) The person must, as soon as practicable after completing each flight, record the following information in the person’s logbook for the flight:
(a) the date the flight began;
(b) the type of aircraft;
(c) whether it was a single‑engine or multi‑engine aircraft;
(d) the aircraft’s nationality and registration marks;
(e) the take‑off and landing points for the flight, and for each segment of the flight;
(f) the flight time (if any) flown in each of the following capacities:
(i) pilot in command;
(ii) co‑pilot;
(iii) pilot in command under supervision;
(iv) pilot receiving flight training;
(g) if the person is a flight instructor—any flight time spent exercising the privileges of his or her flight instructor rating;
(h) if the person is a flight examiner—any flight time spent exercising the privileges of his or her flight examiner rating;
(i) whether the flight was by day or night, or both;
(j) any instrument flight time;
(k) whether the person conducted an instrument approach operation and, if so, the type of instrument approach procedure.
(4) The person must, as soon as practicable after completing each simulated flight in a flight simulation training device, record the following information in the person’s logbook for the simulated flight:
(a) the date the simulated flight began;
(b) the type of aircraft represented by the device;
(c) the simulated flight time (if any) performed in each of the following capacities:
(i) pilot in command;
(ii) co‑pilot;
(iii) pilot in command under supervision;
(iv) pilot receiving flight training;
(d) if the person is a flight instructor or simulator instructor—any time spent exercising the privileges of his or her instructor rating;
(e) whether the flight was conducted in simulated day or night conditions, or both;
(f) a description of the simulated flight activity.
The Regs go on to say...
61.365 Production of personal logbooks
(1) CASA may direct the holder of a flight crew licence or certificate of validation to produce the holder’s personal logbook for inspection by CASA.
(2) The holder of a flight crew licence or certificate of validation commits an offence if:
(a) CASA directs the holder to produce his or her personal logbook under subregulation (1); and
(b) the holder does not produce an up to date version of the personal logbook within 7 days after the day the direction is given.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(3) If the holder’s personal logbook is kept in electronic form, a requirement to produce the logbook is met if:
(a) the holder produces a printed copy of the logbook; and
(b) each page is certified by the holder as a true copy of the logbook records set out on the page.
(4) An offence against this regulation is an offence of strict liability.
I've had an Excel logbook for years which I use everyday and then update my written logbook a few times a year. I thought I had to get the printed electronic copy certified by a JP as a copy of the written logbook to count as a legal logbook, apparently not, I can certify a printed copy of the electronic logbook myself.
CH
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- Silver Wings
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Jul 2012
Re: Log Books
Is anyone out there (who's using an electronic logbook) printing and glueing loose leaf entries into their standard pilot logbook? Or does anyone know if this is considered acceptable? Seems to be the standard with maintenance logbooks these days.
-
- Gold Wings
- Posts: 194
- Joined: Oct 2010
Re: Log Books
Bladepitch has indicated the accepted best practice for correcting an entry, and it is a procedure applied to any log book or diary to preserve it's integrity, not just aviation.
When you rule through the original entry you wish to correct, the first entry must still be legible.
When whiteout solution or tape or a black strike out is used it 'conceals' the original entry and the integrity then becomes in question.
If you scratch out the whiteout to reveal what was underneath you have altered the document again.
Whiteout would draw the attention immediately to any observer prompting a question and an inference which might affect further scrutiny.
CASA as a regulator may not make a fuss of it, but in a court, the court rules and definitions apply and have precedence, especially the rules of evidence
Why make it harder for yourself?
Ditto marks mean a ditto mark in court, they are not a court noticed manner of duplicationg what you want it to.
The use of a JP has an advantge over personal certification.
Once a JP has asked you if everything you have put before him is true and correct, and he signs and seals the document, that document then becomes a fact, you don't have to prove it, the opposition have to disprove it (better position to be in)
A court is compelled to take notice of a JP's process and seal as a JP is noticed as a "justice" (description in the Acts describing a JP, Magistrate or Judge).
Your personal certification does not compel a court to notice it unless you are noticed to the same degree or maybe an authorised officer of some body,. But then you can't certify your own documents, that's a confliction of interest and seen immediately as self serving.
It may be seen to be an offence to remove documents from logbooks but not to add pages or inserts.
Inserts or additions should be in a recognised or logical format to comply with the logbook purpose, pages should be numbered or serialed and in sequence either with the relevant section of the logbook or in a separate section for that purpose.
an index should also be compiled and maintained and included in periodic summaries.
Additions may be glued or contained in preservative pockets.
You can get binding screw sets to enable joining logbooks together to make a single volume and to enable increasing the size of the logbook without separating the binding itself.
If you are operating in/out of remote or unique places that have nicknames or colloquial titles, include an index insert in the front or rear of the logbook that defines those locations (include a formal name/district/province and a GPS location as well. You or your organisation should maintain an LZ description of each location for planning purposes and you could relate the index in your logbook to that LZ reference.
Steve
When you rule through the original entry you wish to correct, the first entry must still be legible.
When whiteout solution or tape or a black strike out is used it 'conceals' the original entry and the integrity then becomes in question.
If you scratch out the whiteout to reveal what was underneath you have altered the document again.
Whiteout would draw the attention immediately to any observer prompting a question and an inference which might affect further scrutiny.
CASA as a regulator may not make a fuss of it, but in a court, the court rules and definitions apply and have precedence, especially the rules of evidence
Why make it harder for yourself?
Ditto marks mean a ditto mark in court, they are not a court noticed manner of duplicationg what you want it to.
The use of a JP has an advantge over personal certification.
Once a JP has asked you if everything you have put before him is true and correct, and he signs and seals the document, that document then becomes a fact, you don't have to prove it, the opposition have to disprove it (better position to be in)
A court is compelled to take notice of a JP's process and seal as a JP is noticed as a "justice" (description in the Acts describing a JP, Magistrate or Judge).
Your personal certification does not compel a court to notice it unless you are noticed to the same degree or maybe an authorised officer of some body,. But then you can't certify your own documents, that's a confliction of interest and seen immediately as self serving.
It may be seen to be an offence to remove documents from logbooks but not to add pages or inserts.
Inserts or additions should be in a recognised or logical format to comply with the logbook purpose, pages should be numbered or serialed and in sequence either with the relevant section of the logbook or in a separate section for that purpose.
an index should also be compiled and maintained and included in periodic summaries.
Additions may be glued or contained in preservative pockets.
You can get binding screw sets to enable joining logbooks together to make a single volume and to enable increasing the size of the logbook without separating the binding itself.
If you are operating in/out of remote or unique places that have nicknames or colloquial titles, include an index insert in the front or rear of the logbook that defines those locations (include a formal name/district/province and a GPS location as well. You or your organisation should maintain an LZ description of each location for planning purposes and you could relate the index in your logbook to that LZ reference.
Steve
Keep it flying, don't quit!
- Capt Hollywood
- 3rd Dan
- Posts: 841
- Joined: Sep 2006
Re: Log Books
FYI - I got my Firefighting rating/endorsement (whatever the hell they're called these days) issued this month using the application form and evidence of prior firefighting operations. I filtered my Excel spreadsheet logbook to show my firefighting entries from 10yrs ago (That saved printing out entire pages with only one firefighting entry on it), then printed the pages out, 'self-certified' them and voilà, a shiny new reprint of my Part 61 licence that now includes the firefighting rating! Took less than two weeks to process too!
-
- Gold Wings
- Posts: 194
- Joined: Oct 2010
Re: Log Books
Congratulations.
I didn't need that information, but thanks for the offering.
I didn't need that information, but thanks for the offering.
Keep it flying, don't quit!
- KOALA
- 1st Dan
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Dec 2015
Re: Log Books
Hi all,
Keen to start an electronic log book.
Does anyone have one that they are willing to share? If not I am happy to do it myself, just trying to save some time.
Thanks in Advance
Marshy84
Keen to start an electronic log book.
Does anyone have one that they are willing to share? If not I am happy to do it myself, just trying to save some time.
Thanks in Advance
Marshy84
Aspiring HEMS pilot
- Capt Hollywood
- 3rd Dan
- Posts: 841
- Joined: Sep 2006
Re: Log Books
PM me your email address mate and I'll flick you my Excel logbook.
- KOALA
- 1st Dan
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Dec 2015
Re: Log Books
Capt Hollywood wrote:PM me your email address mate and I'll flick you my Excel logbook.
Hey Mate,
Can't seem to PM you.
Would you mind Sending me a PM and I will see if I can reply to that?
Aspiring HEMS pilot
- Capt Hollywood
- 3rd Dan
- Posts: 841
- Joined: Sep 2006
Re: Log Books
I got it, check your email in a little while.
-
- Silver Wings
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Jan 2017
Re: Log Books
Capt Hollywood I PM'd you.
- Jabberwocky
- 3rd Dan
- Posts: 505
- Joined: Dec 2007
Re: Log Books
Do you need to replicate the whole of you paper logbook or can you just decide to do it 'from this day forward..' ?
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