External loads with people on board

General stuff that gets thrown about when Helicopter Pilots shoot the Breeze.
Roundhill150
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External loads with people on board

Postby Roundhill150 » Fri Sep 23 2016, 00:01

I'm saying no, the boss reckons it's perfectly ok to carry passengers on board while carrying external loads with an AS350. I'm not talking about winch men etc. but the likes of clients with too much gear to carry internally. He reckons we can legally load the machine internally to 2250 with pax and gear then carry another "250 or so" in a net. I have my doubts that the authority would agree if there was ever a problem. Anyone else in the same situation or am I being pedantic?
Geoff Williams
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Re: External loads with people on board

Postby Geoff Williams » Fri Sep 23 2016, 10:08

Refer to CAO 29.6.

4 Carriage of persons
The pilot in command of a helicopter engaged in sling load operations shall not permit any person to be carried in the helicopter except:
(a) a flight crew member; or
(b) a flight crew member under training; or
(c) a person who performs an essential function in connection with sling load operations.

Your company operations manual should have a section on external loads.

GW
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Helicoil
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Re: External loads with people on board

Postby Helicoil » Fri Sep 23 2016, 10:36

Are you in Australia or NZ? Here's the extract from NZ's Part 133

(b) A pilot-in-command shall not carry a person inside the helicopter on a helicopter sling load operation, who is not performing a function essential to the helicopter sling load operation, unless—

(1) the operation is not a human sling load operation; and
(2) the person is necessary to accomplish the on site work activity directly associated with the sling load; and
(3) the safety of the operation is not compromised
RotorTQ
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Re: External loads with people on board

Postby RotorTQ » Fri Sep 23 2016, 23:39

Agreed with the above.
Without having the CASA rules in front of me to quote verbatim; I believe you'll find it doesn't matter which ICAO standard (country) you're operating under, it's cut and dried.
i.e; you can't operate as a charter (pax onboard) operation whilst at the same time have an underslung load. No matter how small/light the load may be.
In a court of law it would be your butt on the line.
What you are being expected to do is unreasonable. Good luck
NZHelo
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Re: External loads with people on board

Postby NZHelo » Sat Sep 24 2016, 01:38

Get your boss to do the job, that way if there is a bingle its not your bum on the line.
If it doesnt feel right, it more than likely isn't.

Get him to buy a basket.....
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bangequalsbad
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Re: External loads with people on board

Postby bangequalsbad » Sat Sep 24 2016, 01:42

RotorTQ wrote:Agreed with the above.
Without having the CASA rules in front of me to quote verbatim; I believe you'll find it doesn't matter which ICAO standard (country) you're operating under, it's cut and dried.
i.e; you can't operate as a charter (pax onboard) operation whilst at the same time have an underslung load. No matter how small/light the load may be.
In a court of law it would be your butt on the line.
What you are being expected to do is unreasonable. Good luck


I would say the opposite. It looks like if you were in En-Zud and had "no doubt the safety of the operation would not be compromised", then you'd put the tinny on a line, put the lads inside, operate in the same professional manner to place the boat in a isolated river, land on a spot and then unload them and pack up the line and wave goodbye.

I would however say that in 'Straya you would be a fool to interpret the rules as anything other than "load under...pax out."

Bang "Imagine what you could get away with in Zanzibar" equalsbad.
SuperF
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Re: External loads with people on board

Postby SuperF » Sat Sep 24 2016, 04:38

You can take a slung load with pax in NZ, but it has to be for "work" purposes.

DOC hut resupply, council water monitoring, a boat up the river, if work is involved, yes.

A kayaker, with the kayak slung, mountain bikers, fishermen with a boat, hunters with their catch, etc, then sorry but no, unless it is too or from a remote site, then yes.

Now i don't know what model 350 you have, but the NZ laws also state that you must have 10% power reserve at takeoff and landing, that means getting airborne at 90%....

Also if its a 350, check your flight manual supplements, quite a few of them say you shall not carry a load on the hook with a passenger, and i think the flight manual applies on most flights, also applies in Oz i guess.
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AgRattler
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Re: External loads with people on board

Postby AgRattler » Mon Sep 26 2016, 04:57

Grey area. pop;
Redlining in neutral
Roundhill150
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Re: External loads with people on board

Postby Roundhill150 » Mon Sep 26 2016, 10:48

Not really the environment for grey areas any more, not for me anyway. I might give the CAA a ring and get their opinion, might be a worthwhile subject to put I the Vector magazine so everyone is on the same page
Skywork
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Re: External loads with people on board

Postby Skywork » Mon Sep 26 2016, 23:17

Unlike the CASA rules, NZCAA Part 133.53 clearly states when you can and cannot carry a passenger on a sling load or towing operation. Written in clear basic english so pilots can understand without a lawyer.

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