Drones near aerodromes

General stuff that gets thrown about when Helicopter Pilots shoot the Breeze.
tailrotor
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Drones near aerodromes

Postby tailrotor » Wed Jul 20 2016, 01:29

Just a quick questions for any droners out there.

We are having a lot of issues with drones flying near our registered heliport, my interpretation of the law was that no UAV are permitted to operate within 3nm of a registered aerodrome without permission but recently an operator in the area said he had an instrument to operate within these limits for any non towered aerodrome when ever he liked. I'm curious does such a dispensation exist? has anyone ever heard of it?
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helothere
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Re: Drones near aerodromes

Postby helothere » Wed Jul 20 2016, 02:04

It does exist but with limitations. Here's an extract for your perusal:

3 Permission
The operator may operate the UAV at an altitude not above 400 feet AGL, within
3 nautical miles of any aerodrome, other than an aerodrome at which an air traffic
control service is provided by Airservices Australia or the Defence Force.
4 Conditions
The permission is subject to the conditions in Schedule 1.

Schedule 1 Conditions
1. A risk assessment must be carried out by the operator's chief UAV controller before
any operation within 3 nautical miles of an aerodrome.
2. Subject to clause 3, the operator must conduct operations in accordance with its
Operations Manual.
3. If it is impossible for the operator to comply with a provision in the operator's
Operations Manual and a condition in this Schedule, the operator must comply with
the condition in this Schedule.
4. The operator must monitor the relevant air traffic service frequency or frequencies, or
the relevant CTAF (as applicable) for aircraft traffic 15 minutes before the first launch
and then continuously for the duration of the operation of the UAV.
5. For operations within a Control Zone (CTR) the operator must contact the appropriate
air traffic control tower by telephone and inform the location and intention of the UAV
operation at least 15 minutes before the first launch of the UAV, and then again at
the end of the operation.
6. For operations within a CTR, the operator must not activate any transponder fitted to
the UAV unless specifically requested to do so by air traffic control.
7. The operator must transmit the location of the UAV, in Class G airspace only unless
directed otherwise, using call sign 'Unmanned UAV' on the appropriate air traffic
frequency 15 minutes before the first launch and then at 15 minute intervals for the
duration of the operation of the UAV.
8. For operations at a non-controlled aerodrome marked on aeronautical charts or listed
in ERSA, the operator must transmit the location of the UAV using call sign
'Unmanned UAV' on the relevant CTAF -15 minutes before the first launch and
then at 15 minute intervals for the duration of the operation of the UAV.
9. The operator must ensure that the UAV is not flown, within 500 feet vertically and
within 1500 meters horizontally of any aircraft.
10. The operator must ensure that in the period from 15 minutes before the UAV is
launched to the time that the UAV lands, at least one person who is trained as an
observer in accordance with the operator's Operations Manual:
(a) is in a location that enables that person to assist with traffic avoidance; and
(b) has continuous two way communication with the controller of the UAV.

11. The operator must ensure that the UAV is equipped and operated with an active fail
safe mode that will ensure that, in the event of a data-link loss with the UAV or any
loss of control of the UAV, the UAV will:
(a)adjust altitude to the minimum safe level to provide obstacle clearance and
minimum potential for collision with other aircraft, in any case not above 400
feet AGL;
(b) transit to a predefined safe landing or flight termination area; and
(c) land or otherwise terminate the flight.
tailrotor
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Re: Drones near aerodromes

Postby tailrotor » Wed Jul 20 2016, 02:26

Thanks mate, interesting,

9. The operator must ensure that the UAV is not flown, within 500 feet vertically and
within 1500 meters horizontally of any aircraft.

So essential reduces the 3nm to 1500M when aircraft are operating and the person needs a risk assessment (waste of paper) to operate in the area. Oh well good to know I really appreciate the help a lot =)
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Capt Hollywood
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Re: Drones near aerodromes

Postby Capt Hollywood » Fri Jul 22 2016, 08:51

Where is that extract from helothere, is that a CASA Regulation or an extract from an Ops Manual?

I do some casual flying at Seaworld and they've had issues there with UAV operators doing commercial work along the broadwater and along the beach. With two helicopter operations and the occasional seaplane operating in the Broadwater area it would be impossible to comply with those limits unless you could be assured all the aircraft were on the ground. The UAVs that have operated there are well within those 1500m/500' limits but when approached the operators disagreed that they are were breaking any rules.

Just wondering if they might have a different limitation/dispensation.
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helothere
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Re: Drones near aerodromes

Postby helothere » Fri Jul 22 2016, 17:03

That's an extract from an instrument supplied as part of my UOC. Conversations with the RPAS section of CASA have suggested that operation close to manned aircraft is possible with appropriate risk mittigation. I would consider as a minimum;
*Contact with local operators with expected flight times, tasking and areas of operation.
*Radio broadcasts and direct communication with potentially conflicting aircraft.
*A dedicated observer (contact details supplied to local operators).
*A NOTAM notification (CASA RPAS will make the determination as to the requirement of issue from Airservices).

As a side not, I have found the CASA RPAS section approachable and efficient. They are progressive in their ideas and actively seek industry input into operational requirements. Refreshing!
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Capt Hollywood
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Re: Drones near aerodromes

Postby Capt Hollywood » Fri Jul 22 2016, 22:55

Thanks mate. I know Sea World had an issue this week where the UAV operator had all the necessary approvals, spotters, radio, etc but failed to contact the local operators even though he was operating within a kilometer of two very active helicopter operations. Also, as he was transmitting from ground level, no one could hear him unless they were already airborne. Whether it was required or not, I would have though that liasing with other aircraft operators in close proximity to the area you intend to operate in was common sense. Maybe he was concerned at the reaction of the local operators. Might have been a case of easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Unless your UAV ends up embedded in the front of a Squirrel!
godfather007
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Re: Drones near aerodromes

Postby godfather007 » Sat Jul 23 2016, 12:49

Hollywood.
As mentioned in another topic.

http://www.department13.com/

Hook up with this tech and if what they say is true, you can take control of the drone and bring it to you.
Leaving the operator some what pi$$ed off.
Problems can be solved with $.
In saying this, I am very interested to see how this all works out in the future.
There is always an option.
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Tactical71
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Re: Drones near aerodromes

Postby Tactical71 » Mon Jul 25 2016, 19:35

I note that the CASA produced poster Flying with Control for uav/drone operations states must not fly above 400ft agl(120m) in controlled airspace, yet Standard Operating Conditions simply state you must not fly higher than 400ft without any reference to airspace.

If you are in controlled airspace, which covers most Australian cities, you must not fly higher than 400ft(120m)

The standard RPA operating conditions will be:
1.You must only fly during the day and keep your RPA within visual line-of sight.
2.You must not fly your RPA higher than 120 metres (400ft) AGL.
3.You must keep your RPA at least 30 metres away from other people
4.You must keep your RPA at least 5.5km away from controlled aerodromes
5.You must not fly your RPA over any populous areas. These can include: beaches, parks and sporting ovals.
6.You must not fly your RPA over or near an area affecting public safety or where emergency operations are underway (without prior approval). 1.This could include situations such as a car crash, police operations, a fire and associated firefighting efforts and search and rescue.
7.You can only fly one RPA at a time.



Can anyone provide information on this?

If I live out on a farm that's well away from any sort of aerodrome, can I fly higher than 400ft?

Cheers
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Capt Hollywood
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Re: Drones near aerodromes

Postby Capt Hollywood » Tue Jul 26 2016, 06:37

Nope, legally you can't exceed 400'.
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Tactical71
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Re: Drones near aerodromes

Postby Tactical71 » Sat Jul 30 2016, 10:49

Copy that. Thank you. The CASA Poster is a bit misleading then!
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hand in pants
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Re: Drones near aerodromes

Postby hand in pants » Sun Jul 31 2016, 06:16

CAA poster misleading, wash your mouth out with soap.

Tac71, read their charter, clear and concise, or words to that effect. Mind you, I think they are all sitting down in Canberra having a good old belly laugh at the whole industry. Handed us a pile of drivel and we bent over.........................

From Mr Skidmore's blurb on the caa website,

"There are four guiding principles I am committed to and have asked all of our people to keep in mind, these are: communication, cost, complexity and consistency."

Well, they didn't communicate very well, the cost has proven to be a hell of a lot more than "no cost to the industry", it is so complex, it has become all but unworkable and the only thing consistent has been the continuing change, it hasn't stopped yet and I can't see it stopping in the foreseeable future.
It would have been good if they had done the job properly in the first place and checked it with someone who was actually going to use it before they dropped it on us.
Hand in Pants, I'm thinking, my god, that IS huge!!!!!!!!
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Re: Drones near aerodromes

Postby Evil Twin » Sun Jul 31 2016, 09:12

I'd have called this thread 'Drones near dromes' but that's all I have to add, not to detract from the content :D

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