http://fearoflanding.com/accidents/accident-reports/glasgow-helicopter-crash-mystery-76kg-of-fuel-in-tank/
Interesting reading, and another example of the 'swiss cheese' theory.
AAIB report on the Eurocopter EC135 which crashed into Glasgow city centre two years ago.
- SpecialGray
- Silver Wings
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Feb 2013
AAIB report on the Eurocopter EC135 which crashed into Glasgow city centre two years ago.
While many enjoy activities where they challenge themselves to their physical limit, I prefer to do the same thing with my mind. That’s why I go on BladeSlapper, to be around other people who also enjoy being mentally challenged.
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- Gold Wings
- Posts: 102
- Joined: Sep 2015
Re: AAIB report on the Eurocopter EC135 which crashed into Glasgow city centre two years ago.
Its easy to blame pilot error.
Much harder to figure why he made the error.
Just goes to show, multiple thousand hour pilots are not imune to brain farts.
Much harder to figure why he made the error.
Just goes to show, multiple thousand hour pilots are not imune to brain farts.
- muppet
- 1st Dan
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Nov 2010
Re: AAIB report on the Eurocopter EC135 which crashed into Glasgow city centre two years ago.
Yeah, agree Birdy, very weird one this and the report concludes little other than that it happened and they couldn't find a decent reason. Anyone with some ideas, please be forthcoming... Prime pumps on, transfer Pumps off (but had clearly been on previously!) and didn't land after fuel low came on. Seems odd on the surface, but maybe we will never know. Tragic.
- 100ft
- Gold Wings
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Aug 2006
Re: AAIB report on the Eurocopter EC135 which crashed into Glasgow city centre two years ago.
The 135 for being very modern and computer controlled, has a s#!t fuel system. Why you ask. In a long buggy or fat buggy(407) the transfers pumps take care of themselves. Turn them on and forget about it. If Bell can figure it out why can't airbus. The transfer pump failure indications are normal when operating with low fuel levels in the main tank. Now the funny bit in forward flight above 80kn, unusable fuel in the main tank is between 3-7kg, each pump fails a different level. Below 80kn the pumps fail at 60 and 70kg. Maybe he was very accustomed to just turning the transfer pumps off, to avoid the gong and light. As to why the pilot would ignore the low fuel lights and gongs. No idea, maybe he was to task focused. Thinking he turned the transfer pumps on and the low warning would go away eventually.
Transferring fuel in aircraft isn't abnormal, usually its switch on until that tank is dry, turn it off. The 135 is more involved than other heli's I've flown when comes to fuel management.
Transferring fuel in aircraft isn't abnormal, usually its switch on until that tank is dry, turn it off. The 135 is more involved than other heli's I've flown when comes to fuel management.
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- Silver Wings
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- Joined: Jan 2014
Re: AAIB report on the Eurocopter EC135 which crashed into Glasgow city centre two years ago.
One of the strong recommendations from the AAIB and a howling ill informed public... was for cockpit video recorders to be mandated for this kind of work.
What do you lot reckon? Necessary evil that will help solve otherwise hard to explain accidents or a pernicious intrusion into our places of work?
What do you lot reckon? Necessary evil that will help solve otherwise hard to explain accidents or a pernicious intrusion into our places of work?
- Yankee
- 2nd Dan
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Aug 2008
Cockpit voice recorders and EC135 Fuel system.
Hmmm, Plenty of arguments for and against Video. In my humble opinion there is too much room for company abuse. I was once asked at an interview if I had ever made a mistake whilst flying. I said yes... and gave the date of my last flight a few days prior... The interview board seemed to real in shock at my answer... I then went on to add that as of yet I had never had the perfect flight, and that I had made mistakes on every single flight, not hitting my departure checkpoints, making a late call or missing a call all together, busting altitudes and approach and departure profiles. incorrectly entering a frequency, making calls on the wrong radio, using improper lighting configuration for NVG's, entering wrong altimeter setting (that one will get your attention real quickly if you're on an IFR flight... always a good idea to cross check altimeter against the GPS).
I would hazard a guess that just as in life no flight is absolutely perfect. I would be for video and voice recording of a cockpit if the download of data was used STRICTLY for the use in a post accident investigation and that all information from any video or voice recorder to be only used and by the accident investigation board.
On another note...
I thoroughly agree with "100ft's" assessment of the EC135 fuel system. Although cluttered I think the location of the Fuel Prime and Fuel XFER switches should not be co-located.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but It's my understanding from reading the AAIB that the Fuel Prime Pumps were on and the Fuel Transfer pumps were off???
While a pilot is wearing Goggles (and particularly if the pilot is taller than the average joe) Positively identifying those switches in their current location is a bit awkward.
Regardless, The number of times the Gongs were going off and the fact that there was most likely two big "LOW FUEL" warnings on the advisory panel makes one wonder just what was going through the pilots mind...
It makes me wonder if it was standard operational procedure to keep flying until the Main tanks were dry?
Fly Safe guys and gals,
From an imperfect pilot.
I would hazard a guess that just as in life no flight is absolutely perfect. I would be for video and voice recording of a cockpit if the download of data was used STRICTLY for the use in a post accident investigation and that all information from any video or voice recorder to be only used and by the accident investigation board.
On another note...
I thoroughly agree with "100ft's" assessment of the EC135 fuel system. Although cluttered I think the location of the Fuel Prime and Fuel XFER switches should not be co-located.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but It's my understanding from reading the AAIB that the Fuel Prime Pumps were on and the Fuel Transfer pumps were off???
While a pilot is wearing Goggles (and particularly if the pilot is taller than the average joe) Positively identifying those switches in their current location is a bit awkward.
Regardless, The number of times the Gongs were going off and the fact that there was most likely two big "LOW FUEL" warnings on the advisory panel makes one wonder just what was going through the pilots mind...
It makes me wonder if it was standard operational procedure to keep flying until the Main tanks were dry?
Fly Safe guys and gals,
From an imperfect pilot.
Don't think of yourself as and ugly person. Think of yourself as a beautiful monkey.
- 100ft
- Gold Wings
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Aug 2006
Re: AAIB report on the Eurocopter EC135 which crashed into Glasgow city centre two years ago.
Our company 135 has a cockpit camera. Its the airbus camera. Its takes 4mp photos every second. Or maybe quicker, can't remember. But it also records ambient audio, and it is not connected to the intercom system. You can clearly see the dash and about 1/2 the centre counsel and overhead switch's. Depending on lighting a bit out the front windscreen. Honestly nobody from the company ever looks at it. Ever. It gets downloaded occasionally just to clear the memory card.
I do know a pilot who used a cockpit camera in defence against maintenances accusation of hot starting an engine. On a different aircraft type not a 135.
Another pilot had a massive over torque, collective rigging issue. They used the camera do determine the aircraft speed. over 40knots new drive train, under just an inspections. He was doing 35kn as determined by the camera.
Honestly, there probably a good idea.
I do know a pilot who used a cockpit camera in defence against maintenances accusation of hot starting an engine. On a different aircraft type not a 135.
Another pilot had a massive over torque, collective rigging issue. They used the camera do determine the aircraft speed. over 40knots new drive train, under just an inspections. He was doing 35kn as determined by the camera.
Honestly, there probably a good idea.
- hand in pants
- 4th Dan
- Posts: 1615
- Joined: Sep 2006
Re: AAIB report on the Eurocopter EC135 which crashed into Glasgow city centre two years ago.
Video and/or voice recording in the flight deck can be both a good and bad thing. It can get you either in the poo or out of it. For me, I'd rather have it than not.
If things go boobs up and I'm not quick enough to get it fixed and fly off, I'd like to think that a video recording would be there to show what I did wrong so others didn't do the same thing. A voice recording would be useless as it would be just me paying out on anyone and everyone during my last foulmouthed seconds.
I remember teaching an aeroplane pilot to fly helicopters years ago, he told me he had run his plane off the end of a runway in wet conditions. When the crash investigator arrived he walked out of the bush and said "I bet you're glad to see me" Investigator asked why that would be, and he said, "I'm the pilot and I've got the answers to all of your questions". He was right too. It has always been of interest to me that pilots who have accidents don't get on Slapper strait away and explain what happened. It would stop so much of the armchair critics crapping on about what they though had happened.
If things go boobs up and I'm not quick enough to get it fixed and fly off, I'd like to think that a video recording would be there to show what I did wrong so others didn't do the same thing. A voice recording would be useless as it would be just me paying out on anyone and everyone during my last foulmouthed seconds.
I remember teaching an aeroplane pilot to fly helicopters years ago, he told me he had run his plane off the end of a runway in wet conditions. When the crash investigator arrived he walked out of the bush and said "I bet you're glad to see me" Investigator asked why that would be, and he said, "I'm the pilot and I've got the answers to all of your questions". He was right too. It has always been of interest to me that pilots who have accidents don't get on Slapper strait away and explain what happened. It would stop so much of the armchair critics crapping on about what they though had happened.
Hand in Pants, I'm thinking, my god, that IS huge!!!!!!!!
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