New Robinson Safety Notice.

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CYHeli
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New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby CYHeli » Sun Nov 13 2016, 22:43

Robinson Heli have released a revised Safety Notice,SN-22 suggesting an alternative method for getting out of VRS.
Fly sideways and use the TR thrust to assist to get out of the descending air. It will be interesting to see how many schools will teach the new technique as recommended.
Thoughts?
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kiwiflyer
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby kiwiflyer » Sun Nov 13 2016, 23:02

It is already being taught with the new Robinson awareness training being done in NZ.
The Vuchard (spelling?) technique.
It works very well, right cyclic and left pedel VRS recovery with minimal height loss.
Opposite control inputs in a 350 or the like or course
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rotors99
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby rotors99 » Mon Nov 14 2016, 00:09

Been discussed here in great detail already!!! The Vuichard technique is Bollocks, won't do diddly squat for you in full blown IVRS....... Oc:=
Ben Geaney
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby Ben Geaney » Mon Nov 14 2016, 05:04

rotors99 wrote:Been discussed here in great detail already!!! The Vuichard technique is Bollocks, won't do diddly squat for you in full blown IVRS....... Oc:=


I disagree.
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby kiwiflyer » Mon Nov 14 2016, 08:28

I disagree as well I would be keen to hear what you think does work
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rotors99
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby rotors99 » Mon Nov 14 2016, 08:48

All opinions are welcome here.........the Vuichard technique; my Mountain colleagues & I have tried many, many times, sure it works OK during the onset of a pussy footed SWP, IVRS but once Your in a serious VRS; then the Vuichard technique is as useful as licking Your microphone wind sock for a recovery :roll:
Last edited by rotors99 on Tue Nov 15 2016, 20:23, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby rotors99 » Mon Nov 14 2016, 08:57

What works..............to get out of IVRS or VRS?? It's simply elementary dear Watson, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' pop;
the tried & proven age old method:
1. immediately & abruptly Pole forward (a good hand full of forward Cyclic)
2. leave Power (Collective) applied
3. keep straight with pedals.........works like a charm, every time! Tried, tested, proven; too many times to count :lol:
kiwiflyer
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby kiwiflyer » Mon Nov 14 2016, 19:50

Yeah that's the method I've used as well and it has worked in the past very well (I'm still here) and had never had the vuichard tech demonstrated until recently and it seemed to work well.
At the end of the day anything that will burst the bubble will do the trick.
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rotors99
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby rotors99 » Mon Nov 14 2016, 21:43

Hey Kiwiflyer I'll bet you my ANR helmet you weren't in a full VRS.....because it just doesn't work there!! Oc:=
Last edited by rotors99 on Tue Nov 15 2016, 20:22, edited 1 time in total.
kiwiflyer
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby kiwiflyer » Mon Nov 14 2016, 22:07

I don't need a new helmet thanks, your one is prob smelly too :cool_dc:
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rotors99
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby rotors99 » Tue Nov 15 2016, 00:08

Hehehe Kiwiflyer just had a new refurb with new ANR just done by Red Baron ASL (great job)....but I can tell you from so many IVRS sessions the Vuichard don't work squat!!! Oc:= stick to what works & you'll live longer :idea:
'If it ain't broke? Don't fix it'
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DaveL
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby DaveL » Tue Nov 15 2016, 02:37

Whats the "I" stand for?
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Evil Twin
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby Evil Twin » Tue Nov 15 2016, 05:11

I think the first (I) in IVRS is referring to incipient, as in the incipient stage of vortex ring state. There is a debate on this that goes on for a million pages on proon about VRS and IVRS and believers on both sides of the camp getting quite excited.

I've not tried the vuichard technique myself yet however, I would like to test it out just to understand it better.
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DaveL
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby DaveL » Tue Nov 15 2016, 05:19

Incipient was what I thought too but it doesn't make sense in the context that Rotors99 talks about..
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JT
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby JT » Tue Nov 15 2016, 08:22

With all due respect, incipient means; "beginning to happen or develop".

So would IVRS not be easier to recover than fully developed VRS ?

When you're low level & ground impact is imminent, any technique that minimises height loss
must be worth considering ? The Vuichard technique implies that minimal height loss is it's benefit
without having to lower the collective.

"Startle" or more commonly that "WTF" feeling plays a big part in reaction time and cognitive processing.

I'm interested to know WHY the Vuichard technique doesn't work?

Why is it not a good option when you don't have the altitude to recover ?

And what if you're in a situation with insufficient power/over pitched
landing & Rotor Drooping resulting in VRS ?

Many questions I have. :D
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rotors99
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby rotors99 » Tue Nov 15 2016, 20:27

Some corrections; the Vuichard technique does work in a mild SWP & IVRS (been there, done it) where Vuichard won't work is in a fully developed greased anvil VRS (also been there done it, didn't work) pop; you get into VRS due to near zero airspeed, Vuichard won't give You that back, so the Vortex state continues, only poling forward will get back Your all important airspeed & leave the Vortex behind You!!!
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Evil Twin
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby Evil Twin » Tue Nov 15 2016, 22:23

That makes more sense now R99 thanks.
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby Birdy » Wed Nov 16 2016, 02:51

R99, the disc is round and dose not know which way is forward, it just needs some lateral airflow to break out of the VR.
Id like to undetstand why forward is the best, most effective option.
Thanks.
kiwiflyer
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby kiwiflyer » Wed Nov 16 2016, 09:41

You are right any direction will do, in fact if you have got yourself into VRS by doing a downwind approach going forward would not be the best option, aft cyclic and stopping the machine might be best with a tailwind prob wouldn't actually need to get the helicopter moving backwards.
Whatever way you decide is best it is a very decisive movement with the cyclic as the disc is not very responsive in established VRS.
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Re: New Robinson Safety Notice.

Postby Birdy » Fri Nov 18 2016, 08:53

the disc is round and dose not know which way is forward, it just needs some lateral airflow to break out of the VR.
Id like to undetstand why forward is the best, most effective option.
Thanks.


Anyone?

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