Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

UAV's, drivers, builders and the regulations.
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Hugh Bosh
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Mods - Any chance of a clean up?

Postby Hugh Bosh » Fri May 22 2015, 08:20

Gents, really? The speed at which this thread has gone downhill is astounding.

Mods??
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FerrariFlyer
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Re: Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

Postby FerrariFlyer » Fri May 22 2015, 08:26

Agreed HB.

Gents, this has been a reasonably interesting and informative thread with some good points made. Can we please ease back a little on the insult throttle?

Thanks
Jamie
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Re: Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

Postby Jamie » Fri May 22 2015, 08:30

Hugh, I agree that it is going downhill on one side bit I think this is an important issue that greatly affects all of us.
There have been numerous incidents and close calls with drones and helicopters and I think my points were relevant.
Don't you think insurance was an important issue that needs clarifying? I only kept asking the questions and the denigration was one sided.
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Re: Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

Postby arrrj » Fri May 22 2015, 08:50

Wow, I'm interested, but didn't that get nasty...fast !

pop;

Arrrj

PS _ I'm "old"...54...but I can still understand how drones could be of value to the industry.
Jamie
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Re: Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

Postby Jamie » Fri May 22 2015, 09:01

Arrrj, my old mate!
We've had some awesome discussions in the past and have many differences of opinion but it's always been respectful. Maybe you could join in for old time's sake?
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Re: Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

Postby arrrj » Fri May 22 2015, 09:05

Jamie,

A proper exchange of opinions is not a problem, as you rightly point out !

And, yes, from memory we have had a few battles, but you were not rude and I hope I was not either.

This subject is really interesting, less bashing, more info please.

Arrrj
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Re: Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

Postby dronejockey » Fri May 22 2015, 09:32

Bringing this topic back …..
Genuine question - do you offer this training to fixed wing jockeys that have at least PPL theory under their belt? I have a buddy that could be interested in doing it. I think he would be ok, but I am not sure.
Out of interest, what fixed wing drones are you able to offer during the course?

I personally think that if you are not interested in this topic or want to sledge people - do everyone a favour and don't click on the topic unless you are truly interested in such topics or have the intention of providing an informative information to the topic!
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Mongrel Dog
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Re: Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

Postby Mongrel Dog » Fri May 22 2015, 09:45

Image

Sorry, couldn't resist.
Jamie
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Re: Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

Postby Jamie » Fri May 22 2015, 09:48

Well Arrrj, the bottom line is the recreational drone market is booming but the commercial market is only moderate. This is my OPINION only.
Think of the payloads and in comparison to helicopters, cut out the charter and you are left with survey and photography as the major operations.
As in helicopters, the actual job comes via the specialist crew, ie the photographer, scanner, surveyor, marketing company etc. The well paying customer will always go through the actual specialist crew. This is not the case in low to mid range real estate photos though.
When you talk about small UAV like the Phantom, they are a one man op. It is the photographer or scanner who are getting their controller's certification and they are by-passing pilots because that is not their skill. The end client can pick when a pilot does a job (from experience) and prefer camera / LiDAR operators.
As the drones can't change a lens focal length, the high end V14, GSS, Shotover etc are still a helicopter domain.
There is work for pilot /Controllers in film and TV but you will need to be connected to an established videographer and the TV networks are training their own camos to do the Phantom work although it is extremely limited because of the restrictions Ive mentioned earlier.
Basically the majority of the market is real estate photos and low end Internet stuff. There are also ag but again these are done by the farmers themselves.

Don't get me wrong, it is a growing industry and there are some people that are making a good living but until the technology allows for flight over populous areas and the insurance issue gets fixed then the industry is limited.
Of course if you really want to make money you could train UAV controllers - wait, what, did I say that?
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SuperSix1
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Re: Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

Postby SuperSix1 » Fri May 22 2015, 10:17

Mods... acknowledged

Jamie... don't cut half of one of my sentences and Frankenstein it to half a different sentence to try and make it look like a said something that I never did, and I will cease 'roasting' you. Do it one more time mate... court buddy, not joking. You have some industry knowledge but only part of the picture from one state. Don't forget, I train all over the country so I hear lots of different reports on what is happening. Ag is huge in Qld, NSW and WA, and no, farmers are not doing it for themselves. Now you have had your say, a number of times over, so now, I am asking you nicely to leave my thread.

Dronejocky... yes, plank drivers can do the course just like any other PPL + pilot. If they do a multi-rotor I just have to spend a bit of extra time bringing them up to speed on helo-aerody. Best they know what vortex ring is before they plant their new Inspire. The only plank I can do is the TBS Caipirinha... but at least it gets you 'fixed wing' on your controller certificate, along with multi-rotor.
Last edited by SuperSix1 on Fri May 22 2015, 11:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

Postby arrrj » Fri May 22 2015, 10:25

Jamie,

Your knowledge is way more than mine here. Thanks for the update. As I have no experience or knowledge in this realm, I have nothing to add !

I reckon good luck to all...but I'd rather fly a helicopter...with me in it !

Arrrj
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Re: Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

Postby Jamie » Fri May 22 2015, 10:36

That's amazing, now he is threatening court action and this is HIS thread. My stomach is hurting - please stop!
The thing about legal action is it brings out the truth in the public domain.
Don't threaten me just do it -
PM and I'll provide my legal reps name for the serving of the documents. I am serious, don't threaten me without following through with this.
Jamie
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Re: Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

Postby Jamie » Fri May 22 2015, 10:40

Goodnight all, I'm off and getting sick of this.
It seems that nobody is interested in the truth and happy to watch someone who is here just for making money off pilots, denigrate and make threats.
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SuperSix1
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Re: Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

Postby SuperSix1 » Fri May 22 2015, 10:56

ok
Last edited by SuperSix1 on Fri May 22 2015, 12:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

Postby HRG » Fri May 22 2015, 11:05

SuperSix1

Could you please elaborate on how you got approval to conduct manufacturer training on DJI multirotors? Is thier a certificate that is issued from DJI to say that you have completed a official manufacturers training course for the Phantom, Inspire 1, S1000.....etc?....Are you approved by DJI in Australia only? How did FPV Australia gain an approval to conduct these courses? do theses courses get approved by CASA? If so is an instrument isued by CASA like an instrument issued for check and training under CAR 217.

Just curious

HRG
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SuperSix1
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Re: Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

Postby SuperSix1 » Fri May 22 2015, 11:17

thankyou HRG,

Yes, basically you have to be approved by the manufacturer (read get distributor/repairer) and that recognised by CASA. FPV Australia has those approvals along with a UOC that allows training, including the basic RPAS course. Also, like an endorsement, me or any approved UAV instructor cannot train on a type that I myself do not have approved training on. I have just recently completed my fixed-wing UAV training on a plank called a TBS Caipirinha, so now, for the first time, I can pass that 'endorsement' on. But if you wanted training on something I don't have training on, like a 3D Robotics Aero M, I would need to find you an approved trainer from elsewhere. Where no in-country training exists, controllers go overseas to receive the approved manufacturer training on a specific type.

It is not as easy as you might think to get these approvals. At present we are close to sealing the deal with 3D Robotics, but until that, and a few other actions unfold, we can't do manufacturer training on their acft, even though we easily could. Each time a new ship comes out, we start the process again. Think large acft world and you are pretty close.

Under the new regs no 'manufacturer trainer' can do any training on any type that they don't have on their UOC. This will tighten things up as many currently approved 'manufacturer trainers' don't even have a UOC and in some cases even a Controller Certificate.

At the end of the day, it is and will continue to progress to what we have always done in the large / manned acft world.
Last edited by SuperSix1 on Fri May 22 2015, 11:50, edited 1 time in total.
HRG
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Re: Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

Postby HRG » Fri May 22 2015, 11:25

Thanks mate

Hope all goes well....At least that may give people some indication that the UAV industry is at least partly regulated for people who want to do the right thing.
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mdav
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Re: Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

Postby mdav » Fri May 22 2015, 11:30

Omg amazing what happens when you go away for a day, lol. Court action, slander, name calling. Come on kiddies get over it, kiss and makeup, where all professionals here, some more then others. Does make to some good reading but it's getting old.
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SuperSix1
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Re: Drone Commander Australia DomiNation Tour

Postby SuperSix1 » Fri May 22 2015, 12:11

HRG it is a baby industry. Whilst I respect all the guys who have built it to this point, most of whom are model aero guys, it really should have been the domain of the helo industry, operating in the same space and often on similar, related even combined tasks, with acft that are actually helicopters. I got into the instructional side because the owners of FPV Australia stood back and decided the only type of instructor who could really do a good job was a manned helo instructor who was deep into UAVs.

I keep getting accused of marketing and 'taking money off pilots' but if anybody thinks I am actually making money wandering the country for six weeks training two guys here and three guys there for $350 each, you are kidding yourself. I am doing it because from the inside I can see that the only industry that can effectively absorb and mentor the UAV industry is the helo industry. I am not saying all drone pilots need to be helo pilots, but I am saying we should have a large industry presence and heavily influence the direction the industry takes. Hence the DomiNation Tour.

But instead, what we have done as an industry, is set ourselves up as drone haters to stop drones taking manned jobs. This was always attempting to hold back the tide and as an industry we need to change tac and take on the leadership role. The drone industry is inconsistent, if you get 10 CASA UAS guys in a room you get 11 opinions on any topic... not their fault, just a lack of bigger picture guidance. It is also why after some fairly tight regulation in some areas, you get random legislation proposals like, "oh, lets make all drones under 2Kg totally unregulated for commercial operations'. See the overswing? The only thing that will ultimately work is if the rules for drones progress at a logical pace toward the rules for manned. But if you are a model aero guy only, how do you understand the manned world, what the similarities are and where there are differences. You need to be both. I'd love to see some drone-keen manned helo guys in the CASA UAS office. I think we have a crewman so far, that is it. It is my sincere hope that someone I train for their UAV Operator Certificate, will progress on to an influential role in the CASA UAS cell.

From mod...thread locked until further notice.

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