Scout B-330 UAV Helicopter

UAV's, drivers, builders and the regulations.
Gonsky
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Scout B-330 UAV Helicopter

Postby Gonsky » Wed May 31 2017, 21:59

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FerrariFlyer
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Re: Scout B-330 UAV Helicopter

Postby FerrariFlyer » Wed May 31 2017, 23:17

Gonsky wrote:http://www.aeroscout.ch/index.php/scout-uav-helicopters/scout-uav-helicopters-2

http://www.aeroscout.ch/images/download ... ighres.pdf

Nice payload capacity and flying time.

Regards,


Have you considered http://www.droneslapper.com ?
Will_Miller
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Re: Scout B-330 UAV Helicopter

Postby Will_Miller » Wed May 31 2017, 23:41

Do you realise the number of laws there are in Australia on UAV's along with the fact that helicopters absolutely override the capabilities of UAV?

Stop getting caught up in trends.
robaussie99
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Re: Scout B-330 UAV Helicopter

Postby robaussie99 » Thu Jun 1 2017, 03:15

Gonsky wrote:http://www.aeroscout.ch/index.php/scout-uav-helicopters/scout-uav-helicopters-2

http://www.aeroscout.ch/images/download ... ighres.pdf

Nice payload capacity and flying time.

Regards,


Seriously, nobody actually cares.
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Re: Scout B-330 UAV Helicopter

Postby Cleared Hot » Thu Jun 1 2017, 06:50

Cheers Gonsky, it's a beast for sure and at 140kg it's a large UAV.

Never mind this negative lot here. I appreciate it but dronelsapper would be the more appropriate location.
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Re: Scout B-330 UAV Helicopter

Postby Twistgrip » Thu Jun 1 2017, 12:09

dronelsapper would be the more appropriate location.


Indeed it would, that's why it was setup in the first instance for those inclined.
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helothere
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Re: Scout B-330 UAV Helicopter

Postby helothere » Sat Jun 3 2017, 21:40

robaussie99 wrote:... Seriously, nobody actually cares.


"Actually", I do, and so should you. Sure, Droneslapper is set up for general discussion on all things UAV but a little info here and there as to the state of the UAV industry doesn't hurt. There are already unmanned Jetrangers and Squirrels sharing our skies. Very soon you will be sharing controled airspace not with just one or two every now and then (as you are now), but thousands of these semi-autonomous aircraft. And scarily sooner than you may think. It has been estimated that 3 million private and commercial UAV's will be delivered around the world this year, worth more than $6 billion and expected grow to more than $11.2 billion by 2020.

From Airservices:

"Airservices is committed to facilitating the successful entry of Unmanned Aerial Systems (UAS) into controlled airspace in a staged process that integrates with manned operations..."

You may not be interested (yet), but you really should care. I for one salute our new unmanned overlords!

Seriously though, I'm happy for a bit of UAV discussion on Bladeslapper. Please refrain from badgering anyone who simply mentions them.
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Re: Scout B-330 UAV Helicopter

Postby robaussie99 » Wed Jun 7 2017, 00:26

helothere wrote:
robaussie99 wrote:... Seriously, nobody actually cares.


Please refrain from badgering anyone who simply mentions them.


Seriously? Have you been living under a rock? This guy has gone through multiple usernames with a consistent agenda of seemingly provocative pro-drone postings, after you've set up a dedicated website for drones it seems pretty ironic to support this garbage now. We know they're out there, we know they're coming, and if we want to learn more about them we'll head over to droneslapper and educate ourself. I'm not the only one fed up with this bloke if you look back through the post history but hey, it's your show...
Will_Miller
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Re: Scout B-330 UAV Helicopter

Postby Will_Miller » Wed Jun 7 2017, 02:16

helothere wrote:
robaussie99 wrote:... Seriously, nobody actually cares.


"Actually", I do, and so should you. Sure, Droneslapper is set up for general discussion on all things UAV but a little info here and there as to the state of the UAV industry doesn't hurt. There are already unmanned Jetrangers and Squirrels sharing our skies. Very soon you will be sharing controled airspace not with just one or two every now and then (as you are now), but thousands of these semi-autonomous aircraft. And scarily sooner than you may think. It has been estimated that 3 million private and commercial UAV's will be delivered around the world this year, worth more than $6 billion and expected grow to more than $11.2 billion by 2020.

From Airservices:

"Airservices is committed to facilitating the successful entry of Unmanned Aerial Systems (UAS) into controlled airspace in a staged process that integrates with manned operations..."

You may not be interested (yet), but you really should care. I for one salute our new unmanned overlords!

Seriously though, I'm happy for a bit of UAV discussion on Bladeslapper. Please refrain from badgering anyone who simply mentions them.



Sharing our skies? Sorry but that is totally incorrect. 2 years ago they media said Australia would have them in the air within 6 months, still to no avail. You should stick to looking at Australian law and not assuming that anything the FAA does applies to us. CASA are a long way from allowing anything unmanned in our skies (besides small drones with no passengers) and honestly do you think students/touring/commercial clients will get in an aircraft with no pilot. The simple answer is no. The technology might be becoming available but the human element of being comfortable with this technology is at least 20-30 years away, this coming from someone who has worked with the leading companies in United States on AI based technology and this is the #1 hurdle they have to cross :D
Gonsky
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Re: Scout B-330 UAV Helicopter

Postby Gonsky » Wed Jun 7 2017, 03:26

Most UAS have no AI subroutines whatsoever interesting that you indicated they did as your in the field. They have simple subroutines that take in data from various sensors and then process using close set parameters which in most cases are easily defined, hence the mass propagation of 100$ quads all over the place. The difference between the 20$ and 2000$ airframes are more control loops and what is beginning to be impressive Geo fencing capabilities. Which basically keeps them away from airports and other sensitive areas, which is very important.

Automated cars have no AI yet people are driving in them as we speak. UBER, after destroying the taxi market is now trying to get rid of the drivers that helped its penetration into the market with driver less cars.

The universities have AI in test beds all over the world working on various attributes but none are in the mainstream, most UAS airframe use will be from A to B like offshore supply runs and other monotonous uses.

I am not sure what was happening 2 years ago in the Australian market yet the viral like exponential growth in these silly little quads has got to the senate level in Australian politics.

Regards,
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Re: Scout B-330 UAV Helicopter

Postby Eastwoodblade » Sat Jun 10 2017, 01:49

Meanwhile of this post, Yamaha have picked up another manned job...

https://youtu.be/mYySDaDXTD0

pop;
Rotary as in not the Wankel engine...
Gonsky
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Re: Scout B-330 UAV Helicopter

Postby Gonsky » Sat Jun 10 2017, 21:46

That will end in tears, the motor is actually a tad under 300 cc and the airframe has max payload of 28 kg. That banner is a huge amount of drag for an airframe that is very under powered for this use. The drag could spike massively with a gust of wind and that will cause a failure unless they have a strain release type system which will shear, once a preset load has been reached. Could also use a strain gauge with telemetry which would notify the operator on the ground.

Regards,
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Re: Scout B-330 UAV Helicopter

Postby FerrariFlyer » Sun Jun 11 2017, 03:23

We like talking about the use of drones and how they are 'complimenting the industry of manned aircraft'.

However, there are still some significant concerns surrounding their use:

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017 ... ty-dispute
Gonsky
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Re: Scout B-330 UAV Helicopter

Postby Gonsky » Sun Jun 11 2017, 05:45

After doing some quick calculations the above group should not be flying as they do not have a large enough FOS margin. Max takeoff weight: 94 kg, maximum payload: 28–31 kg on the spec sheet of an Rmax.

So based on that:

Liquid sprayer numbers 8 ltr x 2 tanks + 7.4kg weight, Granular Sprayer 13 ltr x 2 with 7kg weight. So lets say 1 to 1 on the fluids equals 23.4kg and granular lower weight per volume so probably around the same as the liquid and shoot for 25kg payload that Yamaha has probably been running over the years. Also it is an old airframe and has not been changed for many years, I played with one in the late 90's and it was a very complex design.

A simple rule of HP versus lift for safety is about 4kg per hp, so 15.4 kw is about 21hp. 21 hp x 4kg gives you 84 kg. So the Rmax is already running at the top of the scale for HP/lift as they are using over 4.5 times for a very old design. Now a lot of other factors come into it but that is a good start, with better running components and considerable changes in blade design you can get that number over 6kg per HP currently.

Without even doing calcs on wind load/drag based on the projected area of 250 mtr sq (10 mtr x 25 mtr banner), the quickest number is simply fabric weight; 100 gsm ( grams square meter ) equals 250 x 100 = 25,000 grams or 25kg. Now that is using the lowest fabric weight for this type of application. Also they need to be able to be printed on and they need to be sewn together as they do not come in very wide strips, more weight. So probably closer to 150 gsm.

Trilobal is 90 ~ 155 gsm
100D Polyester 90 ~ 160 gsm
200D Trilobal/Knitted Polyester 200+ gsm
500D Woven Bunting Polyester 300+ gsm

Even if there was less than another 5kg of lines and platform attachment equipment your already at 30 kg payload using the lowest figures, hard point issues would also be a concern add to that this airframe was NEVER (repeat NEVER ) designed for this.

So adding to that the calcs for wind load on a flag which is a long and boring equation ( F = A x P = A x Ce x Cq x Qs x Iw) you have considerably more forces on this airframe system than the ~30kg it is rated to carry. Even if you use an extremely low number of 10 grams of wind force per sq meter at say 5 knts, you still have another 2.5 kg added. And that is based on the lowest of low numbers. I would say an additional 10 kg could be easy be added and that is not even taking into account gusts and the like.

You can see the angle of the airframe in the video and also the fact the banner is not extending fully as the Rmax does not have enough forward airspeed for this application. The payload can be just lifted and they get additional lift from the disk in forward but they are maxed out.

Honestly this is a case whereas CASA has not done their homework and dropped the ball. This operator should not be allowed to fly a banner of that size, more so they should be required to outline all the calculations for safe operation of this system in various conditions to the reverent bodies and I am sure their insurance company would be very interested also.

Regards,
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Re: Scout B-330 UAV Helicopter

Postby Mag seal » Sun Jun 11 2017, 06:43

Cost to buy the Rmax is about 200k and the range is 400 meters. Line of sight.

You'd be better hanging a banner from a kite.


My children's kids won't think twice about getting into a fully automated aircraft and that's when pilots will be history.
I've got 20 years to go until 65 so I'm not worried about losing my job to drone.

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