Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Got any good tips for that killer aircraft pic?
horlix
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Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby horlix » Sat Aug 3 2013, 09:45

Hi guys. I'm a pretty low time pilot lucky enough to have a job flying and the company I work for have recently acquired an as350. We've got a bit of long line work coming up this summer and I hope to be doing most of it. Trouble is my skills are a tad rough in the new machine and I was wondering if anyone had any as350 specific tips that might help me. I've been going pretty sweet with a 60ft line in the 500 but the 120 footer in the as350 is taking quite a bit of getting used to. The toughest part is avoiding the swing when positioning the load. The machine has no mods to improve your position when your head is out the door so it feels like you're literally controlling the thing with your finger and toe nails and stealing a glance in to check the instruments always seems to turn things pear shaped on the end of the line. Any tips would be much appreciated. Thanks.
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wheatbix
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby wheatbix » Sat Aug 3 2013, 18:09

Does the machine have a vertical reference window in the floor?
horlix
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby horlix » Sat Aug 3 2013, 19:24

No unfortunately not.
Capt Ahab
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby Capt Ahab » Sat Aug 3 2013, 20:09

If it doesn't have the DART floor MOD don't do it.

I have over 2000 hrs long line an about 1000 in the AS350 and I would never long line without that MOD. Hanging out the door if you're shorter than 5'10 is crazy. If the donk coughs or splutters you will not get back in quick enough to recover RPM.

My thoughts only......

Cheers
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100ft
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby 100ft » Sat Aug 3 2013, 21:18

Without a longline window, your going to have some serious challenges. It could be done, but your not going to be very comfortable.

This is what happens when the stove quiets and you don't react in time, in an AS350.

http://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/enquetes-investigations/aviation/2012/A12P0008/A12P0008.asp

The pilot was killed, the g forces tore his heart from its connective tissue. The pilot, was extremely experienced, and a better pilot than most of use will ever become. Use extreme caution in height velocity curve.


On a side note, It takes a 0.3 millisecond air disruption to flame an aerial engine out. Thats what cased this crash. Theres a serious issue of plenum icing in AS350, it can happen at the same temps as carb ice. Eurocopter is doing nothing to about it. The bleed valve may have been melting/preventing the build up of ice all these years in other model as350, but the B3 vents that hot air overboard.
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby kiwiflyer » Sat Aug 3 2013, 21:59

It can be done it will be a bit harder to see your load that's all.
Using a longer line will help, least a 100ft but a 150 is a good length.
Get the wind on your right hand side so you have to put right cyclic and left pedal in to hold position this will tip the machine over to the right even more than it would be with wind on the nose making it easier to see the load and it unloads the tail rotor.
Don't get the wind on the left the airframe levels out and you can't see a thing ( even with the seat mods windows etc).
Pull the seat fwd as far as practicable as it gives you a bit more out the door length especially if you are shorter than most.
If you leave the shoulder straps buckled in but put them behind your back they sit down the side of your rib cage and let you get out the door more but give you support as well, won't help in a prang but is a help longlining.
As far as engine failures go weather you have a window or not you are in trouble and it won't make a ounce of differance either way you will be sitting in a bent helicopter wondering what happened before you have even worked out the engine has stopped.
Just my two cents worth
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby rodger rodger » Sat Aug 3 2013, 22:54

All the old farts like me remember stretching out the squirrel doors, after a long day it takes a toll on your back.

As said it above it can be done, it was the only way to do it for years, but these days with the choice of the mods available why would any company serious about providing professional and safe longline services not use them?

I used and like the seat mod but im a converted window mod user.

Horlix read Kiwiflyers advice and get plenty of practise before getting let loose, theres no substitute for it.
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby horlix » Sun Aug 4 2013, 01:24

Thanks a lot for taking the time to reply fellas. To Kiwiflyer and FF I really appreciate the practical tips and will certainly think more about how I set up the machine especially on finals. FF you're bang on about how being slow and steady actually translates to speed and efficiency when it comes to long lining. I will try the other techniques you suggested also.
RR, in response to your comments. I'm lucky to have a Boss who's happy for me to take a bit of time here and there when we have the machine running to get some practice with the long line and I consider myself very fortunate for this. I'm sure if we have more demand for this type of work come in he won't hesitate in fitting the
window mod but in the mean time we just have to make do. One things for sure, if the job comes up and I don't feel I'm up to speed to do it safely and efficiently I wont attempt it. Pretty simple decision and one I won't get any grief for.
Thanks again guys
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby HeliSAJ » Sun Aug 4 2013, 01:32

Another idea I used was to use a towel or something similar under the seat to raise the seat height which helps with not being over 6 ft tall but the best option is the lifting window mod, I don't ever want to do long line out if an AS350 again without one.
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby KNOW NUFFEN » Sun Aug 4 2013, 02:33

From an outsider looking in , with a $1 million craft and long line cargo , one would think you would have /must have an observer on board talking the pilot through ?Am i missing something ? KN
Dan1978
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby Dan1978 » Sun Aug 4 2013, 03:27

Move your bum to the left of the seat closer to the collective so when you lean out to the right your spine isn't as twisted and use a minimum of a 150ft line also they lift best with the wind at your 11 o'clock.....having said all this I'm 200cm tall so it is a little easier for me ;)
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby AgRattler » Sun Aug 4 2013, 03:36

Know Knuffen, you must be taken the piss?!
Redlining in neutral
KNOW NUFFEN
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby KNOW NUFFEN » Sun Aug 4 2013, 03:54

Yep ,KN
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby AgRattler » Sun Aug 4 2013, 04:21

Thought you were , the machine would be worth at least 1.5 mil.
Redlining in neutral
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby muppet » Sun Aug 4 2013, 07:47

but these days with the choice of the mods available why would any company serious about providing professional and safe longline services not use them?

This makes sense.

Get the wind on your right hand side

This doesn't. Just saying.

If you leave the shoulder straps buckled in but put them behind your back they sit down the side of your rib cage and let you get out the door more but give you support as well, won't help in a prang but is a help longlining.

Priorities here are??? No offense.

Hanging out the door if you're shorter than 5'10 is crazy.

Yep. I'm taller than that and still found it hard. But then I am kind of crap at lifting. Like to think it's cos I don't do it much, but maybe I am just crap at lifting...

If you are going to do regular lifting in a squirrel, it should be set up for the job. Anything less is just daft.

I have over 2000 hrs long line an about 1000 in the AS350 and I would never long line without that MOD

This looks like an expert opinion, I would listen to it.
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby rotors99 » Sun Aug 4 2013, 09:00

for any slinging &/or limited power work in the Ecureuil the wind should be in the 1 to 3o'clock position to reduce the tail-rotor's work & give You more lever to pull & not anywhere else )c/
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hand in pants
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby hand in pants » Sun Aug 4 2013, 10:00

Best advice for slinging with an AS350 is to use a B206L.....................
Hand in Pants, I'm thinking, my god, that IS huge!!!!!!!!
horlix
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby horlix » Sun Aug 4 2013, 10:45

Cheers guys. Some great advice here. Real bummer I don't have a b206l like hand in pants, 2000hrs long line time like capt ahab or even a window in the floor but at least it's not a b3 so with some luck I won't get plenum icing. Thanks again for your help. Horlix.
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby AgRattler » Mon Aug 5 2013, 06:52

Id just cut a window in the floor or have a gopro 3 on the hook and watch the load through your iphone that you can tape to the door frame.
Redlining in neutral
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Re: Any tips and techniques on long lining from an as350

Postby Skeeter » Mon Aug 5 2013, 07:09

I'd like to see the face of the owner if you choose option one! :shock:

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