Wages - Operators have your say

What's a job in helicopters pay? Does it pay? Why do you get paid more than me?
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Izzy Fullashat
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Re: Wages - Operators have your say

Postby Izzy Fullashat » Sun Mar 1 2009, 02:09

HIP...........................Before I learnt how to fly I knew how to answer the phone flying scool didn't have to teach me that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

School where I learnt how to fly also taught me how to fly and conduct scenic flights in an R22. From phone call, take off, spiell & landing. Now not all of us need to be treated as babies for ever and a day.


Izzy (BOSS YOU'RE RIGHT AGAIN)
OHH!!! CRAP I still cant come up with a catchy saying!!!!!!!
chicken
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Re: Wages - Operators have your say

Postby chicken » Sun Mar 1 2009, 03:26

HiP

HIP I did 4 years research about this industry, while I was saving, working 12-18 hour days - not just survive the training (full time), but to be able to live earning min wage per week while living my dream as a heli pilot, Every cent I spend flying I worked hard for, it gave me a lot of time to think if it was the right choice and I have taken the time to plan out a path to follow..., I didn't have someone else's C/Card to use , I know ( and have met) there are some younger pilots out there, at 18 yr that didn't earn a cent of their training funds, so they wouldn't know what a hard days work is all about and I know there are ppl working in KFC or pumping gas, to save for one hours flight a month.....

There is NO WAY that you can say a 18yr pilot is the same as a 30 yr pilot, life experience is everything you have survived to be 30,, you don't take many risks any more, every move you do is calculated , you read the paper and understand it, there is NO way that a 18 yr pilot is the same as a 30 yr, yes you should know/fly the same when you leave school , but its not the flying that going to get you that first job,, is it ,HIP?
HIP this is a chat, no need to tell me to SUCK IT UP thanks.
Last edited by chicken on Sun Mar 1 2009, 10:29, edited 1 time in total.
six-three Bravo
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Re: Wages - Operators have your say

Postby six-three Bravo » Sun Mar 1 2009, 04:58

HIP,

at that time i was a 300 hour pilot and i wasn't about to tell someone who had 3000 hours not to fly. i advised him not to fly however if I dobbed him in to the chief Pilot and word got out in the industry that I knived "Joe" I don't think i would of secured employment as a low time pilot again.

This was the same company that made me work 7 days a week for 8 months although I was only doing about between 4-8 hours flying a week and when I protested about not getting a day off, the response was there is another 30-40 low time pilots lining up for your job so if you don't like move on. I got the same response from the chief Pilot when I would point out something was wrong with the aircraft eg no low RPM horn or Carbie heat and told not to enter it on the MR. So like all good low time pilot I just SUCKED IT UP, as you so often advise.

A safety culture is about building a culture where people arn't afraid to come forward about D&A abuse on the job or reporting a safety breech without fear of retribution . The safety culture at this place was one where the chief Pilot would get blind drunk at the Xmas party and take his R22 for spin doing a couple of circuits at night. Great party trick and a great mentor! I had another Chief Pilot tell me from a now defunked company when you take passengers on a scenic flight I want to see them come back spewing, scare the s#!t out of them. true story and another great mentor.

So everythiing in context HIP. By the way HIP I've already done the military thing, ex sniper / recon parachute battalion, so watch your six. Just kidding. HIP I think you are a champion and I would love to get together and buy you a beer one day. (better make it a light).


Cheers

six=three Bravo
BennyG
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Re: Wages - Operators have your say

Postby BennyG » Thu Mar 5 2009, 15:05

chicken wrote:HiP

There is NO WAY that you can say a 18yr pilot is the same as a 30 yr pilot, life experience is everything you have survived to be 30


Mate that's a fairly massive generalisation, I got my first job at 18 and went on to be 2nd in charge by 19 and operating a jetranger by myself for 5 months in the middle of nowhere. It's all about personality not age. Being 30 is nothing. Don't try and belittle young pilots for your own benefit.
PhilJ
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Re: Wages - Operators have your say

Postby PhilJ » Thu Mar 5 2009, 23:43

Actually there is a quite large difference physiologically between a 19 year old and a 30 year old.

The part of the brain responsible for risk assessment is not fully developed until about 25.

Younger people (in a broad generalisation) do tend to pick up motor skills and be able to study more easily than older people however.

So a 19 year old may be better at maneuvering the machine and recalling air law that a 30 year old but does not have development to make decisions in the same way as a 30 year old. These are generalisations, there are plenty of 19 year olds that have no coordination at all and plenty of 30 year olds that make shocking decisions.

Benny G perhaps you have an abnormally developed dorsal-lateral prefrontal lobe. :wink:
chicken
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Re: Wages - Operators have your say

Postby chicken » Thu Mar 5 2009, 23:43

fair call benny well done,, sounds like you have your head screwed on..
I was also in 2nd in charge of 800tons of metal floating around the oceans @ 21yr , BUT I still knew that even thou I was UNI smart , I didn't have the experience of the older guys, they knew lot more, not just in the work place but all over, they had done more things and generally lived.........

IM not belittling younger guys Mate , good on them and double thumbs up to them, I wish them luck :D
made4trade
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Re: Wages - Operators have your say

Postby made4trade » Fri Mar 6 2009, 00:32

You learn by your mistakes, and when you hit 30 you've made plenty!
bol-kowboy
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Re: Wages - Operators have your say

Postby bol-kowboy » Fri Mar 6 2009, 02:11

HIP,

I've been flying for over 15 years, multi IFR etc.

If I transferred now to another company eg. Bristow, I would have to do a minimum of 12 months (including sim trips) before I got a Bristow command. Would they pay me the award while I was doing this training/flying ? Answer...No..they would pay about twice the award.

Myself and a pilot with 105 hrs both require training. Mine alot more expensive. So operators can't use the old training costs as an excuse to rip off new pilots ..

Now for some sums..

The award pays approx. $42000 PA, shonky operators (aka S.O.)$26000 PA.

Award : $20 per hour $160 per day( 40 hour week ), S.O. $12.50 per hour $100 per day.

We are talking about a difference of $60 a day. If a operators margins are that close, what are they doing in the industry !!!!!

I always think to myself, if an operator is skimping on paying their pilots, where else are they skimping.

Operators who pay under the award get an advantage over legitimate operators by lowering operating costs, increasing profits.


Getting of soap box now.....
NZHelo
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Re: Wages - Operators have your say

Postby NZHelo » Fri Mar 6 2009, 02:34

BennyG wrote:

Being 30 is nothing.


I guess thats why you see so many 19 year olds in the captain seat of a super puma.
Heliduck
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Re: Wages - Operators have your say

Postby Heliduck » Fri Mar 6 2009, 03:06

The problem with youth is that they believe intelligence is a substitute for experience, & the problem with old dudes is that they believe experience is a substitue for intelligence.

Every one of my grey hairs represents a lesson learnt, but my problem is that I'm not intelligent enough to realise that I have experience!!
"Plan twice...Fly once"
BennyG
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Re: Wages - Operators have your say

Postby BennyG » Fri Mar 6 2009, 05:55

NZHelo wrote:I guess thats why you see so many 19 year olds in the captain seat of a super puma.


Might have something to do with not physically being able to meet the minimums for such a job at 19 when you can only get your cpl at 18...??
NZHelo
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Re: Wages - Operators have your say

Postby NZHelo » Fri Mar 6 2009, 07:33

BennyG wrote:
Might have something to do with not physically being able to meet the minimums for such a job at 19 when you can only get your cpl at 18...??


Hook, line and sinker.......
How do you get that experience? You have to work longer in the industry which means you get older.
Being 30 means nothing............my arse

Pear Head wrote:Twistgrip - well done, mate. You will be able to pick the cream of the newbie pilots, and they will look after you in return.

Skid Bighter - Difficulty level zero? Then why are people still killed doing it? People are killed crossing the road and that isn't that difficult A heavy Astro in a 6,500DA is more than difficulty level zero Yes, Depends on what job you are doing. Confined areas into showgrounds in controlled airspace, in an aircraft you have less than 20 hours in?A showground is not a confined Area and if you have a CPL you have passed the radio section so controlled airspace who cares Difficulty level zero?Yes. You are allowed to do laps with passengers after 35 hours (GFPT). What about the jobs where the hardest thing is to stay awake (three hour ferries with rig pigs)? What difficulty level is that?ZERO. Very easy as there are two pilots on board and the Flight Director/Auto Pilot does most of it.
To remain sort of on topic... My first job, I didn't see my boss for 2 months after starting, didn't even have an interview. I was paid $16,000 p/a with food and board thrown in and making the company $1,100 per hour on a 44. I loved every minute of it. It certainly didn't take 6 months to ramp up. I was happy for the experience; he was happy for the phat profits.
Whirl Wind
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Re: Wages - Operators have your say

Postby Whirl Wind » Fri Mar 6 2009, 09:25

To the youngsters who are starting out in this business, I still like to believe in a old school thing called showing some respect for your elders, flying experience aside, show some courtesy for someone who has been around longer than you have and believe it or not, you may learn something instead of knowing everything.
LivinAtLarge
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Re: Wages - Operators have your say

Postby LivinAtLarge » Fri Mar 6 2009, 11:39

Like a pilot told me once (sorry if this has been written already, as I did not go back to the beginning of the thread).

Flying is like It two cups on a scale. One is labeled Luck the other experience.
The idea is to fill up the one labeled experience before the one labeled luck is empty.

LAL
Strake
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Re: Wages - Operators have your say

Postby Strake » Fri Mar 6 2009, 12:50

Like a pilot told me once (sorry if this has been written already, as I did not go back to the beginning of the thread).

Flying is like It two cups on a scale. One is labeled Luck the other experience.
The idea is to fill up the one labeled experience before the one labeled luck is empty.



Nice one!

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