Airborne Video Recorders, Cameras, and Systems

CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Fri Sep 12 2008, 23:12

The vote is very close now, any month.

)c/
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Sun Sep 14 2008, 11:48

I wouldn't get too worked up about waiting, from what i'm hearing most will be voting YES. Well what has changed?? The offer is still well short of Bristows and is being delayed with the very intention of allowing all to get despondent with the whole process.

I say regroup and lets get back to it, our reps are back off holidays and sim training, we can pick some new guys if need be. Its no use thinking 'Ah its only 2 years and we can get more' have you seen the price of oil? Have you seen whats happening to the economy? If we don't grab this moment to get a decent pay rise you may as well not bother sending reps to the next EBA, just take CPI from now on. The only thing that should have changed in the draft agreement is the pay and its taken this long to get to vote.

If it takes splitting the EBA to get a good offshore increase and then a loss of pilots on the EMS side to get a good EMS increase then so be it but lets not use the revenue from one sector to subsidize another, be it offshore, RAAFSAR or EMS. If a sector cant pay then it will die off.

The grape vine speaks of Bristows pilots shaking their heads with disbelief that we even contemplate giving in for such a measly offer. Show some balls!! Forget what people with self interests have said on the internal mail, don't let the propaganda from head office cloud your mind.

There is a shortage of pilots, we are hemorrhaging pilots from all sectors faster than we can fill the spaces. It takes months and years to fill a position and a day to empty it. Do you not feel like a rare commodity?

Look at yourself and remember where you have come from, the sacrifices you have made and the s#!t you have taken to get to this esteemed position. Many have lost relationships, houses, kids all to do what runs in our blood.

We all know our company is run by engineering who have very little respect for pilots, show them who should be respected, show them who puts their life on the line each and every time we fly to keep this company going. The s#!t we take off engineering is unbelievable, an AME gets more for a casual day than a Captain with "years and years" of experience, why? Because we are whiling to just say YES, because i need the pathetic increase NOW not in a few months time.

Get fired up again guys, spread the word that we aren't finished yet, we have only just begun and if our new owners don't like, move on and let someone run us who gives a s#!t about its workers.

We aren't just numbers, we are people from many different backgrounds with many different stories to tell with people we care about and who care about us. We have to live for today but also plan for tomorrow, if this job doesn't pay then we have to move to somewhere that does. That somewhere is becoming more available each and everyday.

Vote NO and lets get back to the table.
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Tue Sep 16 2008, 13:20

Agree with the post above, Are all the offshore co pilots happy with the Offshore allowance, I dont think so, vote No and send a clear message. the engineers get more now for a casual day than what is being offered and are about to re negotiate their EBA to get more.

ARE we all weak what happened to the 30% increases at the start of our campaign.
Tell all to look at this site and contribute to the discussion, there are alot of people who are going to vote NO so do not think you are alone and vote yes for the sake of doing so.
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Wed Sep 17 2008, 02:24

You guys are obviously offshore. Read the offer from a RAAF SAR perspective. So if I get fired up, is it for your bigger offshore share, or some parity for the SAR guys. Oc:=
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Wed Sep 17 2008, 22:27

With oil prices 38% lower than July (at one stage on Wed dropping below $US90) it is worth us ALL remembering that we are a collective that relies on all its members for security and stability. I think allowing one part of the group to prosper at the expense of the rest is a road to destruction. When the "flavour of the month" changes, the conditions of the whole group will drop as opposed to those left behind this time coming back up to parity.
If you read this new proposal and see it as fair from EVERY pilots' point of view as well as from that of the company, then by all means vote it in. But, look at it from your mates' point of view and you might think that it could do better for the group as opposed to just sectors of us.
Lets face it. We all have hard-earned and in-demand skills. We all face a level of risk in doing what we love to achieve the company's aims. And we all make sacrafices (missing family, awful 24 hour rosters and even for some, boredom!) to do what we do.
Lets support our mates, look after our company and get a fair deal for all.
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Wed Sep 17 2008, 22:44

May I suggest we start listing here the pros and cons of the latest deal so that we can understand each others views.
Me, EMS.
I dont think its too bad but it seems that dropping the casual rate (relatively) of EMS and home based pilots in order to afford an increase for other casual rates is unfair. Am happy with EMS allowance but why is it not inclued in ordinary time earnings salary amount for calculation of company super contributions like the offshore allowance is?
I would like to hear what the offshore guys think of the accommodation issues. We over here are out of touch with that particular issue but understand that it is important.
I also wonder about the plight of co-pilots and the SAR pilots as a whole.
The 2% On Shore sign on bonus seems like a bribe?!
Offshore allowance seems fair enough to me to cover the loss of two weeks leave, and I guess the lack of progression past 16 years but would be interested to know how those affected feel.
Speak up guys. We all need to know how we all feel if we are to vote any more affectively than just throwing up our hands in frustration at the recent stalling tactics.
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Thu Sep 18 2008, 11:18

Hi all, to the post above , i,m offshore capt We have from the start been keen to see the EMS allowances increased particularly for the 3,3 and 3 guys. I think time spent away from home should be paid for and appreciate the thoughts on the offshore allowance being offered. But as stated time away from home is valuable to all. From what I am told you guys can spent almost the same time away taking inot account stby call ins and the like.

As for the offshore allowance I think it is very unfair to split the allowance re: fo,sfo, capt. can the company do the 2 crew role without these people (fo,sfo) and I feel that time away from home is the same for all.

The increment drop to 16 yrs is one reason why I will vote no to this EBA, the lack of consideration for its long standing employees and the total disregard for their loyalty does not sit well.

If they think that the offshore allowance covers it they are wrong, this allowance just covers the time spent away from home. Remembering that DTA is not paid to be away from home it ia a sustenance allowance. And for the guys out there saying but you get 2 weeks at home, how would it be if we all decided to be at home and not tour, we probably would not have one of the profatable streams , remember the company needs us to tour not the other way round.

On Casual days as stated before some engineers already get more for a casual day than the proposed increases and they take no risk. This is not greed this is fact. I am unhappy that this is the case as we all take the risks involved.

As for SAR have not heard much I would to like to hear some comment from the sar boys. Lets keep it constructive as like you I would like to get it right for all.
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Fri Sep 19 2008, 02:23

I am a SAR Captain.

I have read the emails, the web pages and the agreement. I have also listened to some of the summaries as to what discussions have taken place with the reps (but this is not gospel of course). I believe I know what I am worth and what I should be paid. BUT, I haven't seen any support for a SAR guy to be paid the same as the other streams.

I fly some dangerous profiles (I have worked EMS but not offshore) and I know that the skills I use here are every bit as demanding as they were in EMS, if not more so, but I acknowledge that they are not called upon as often so the net risk probably does reduce (not the skill set required) and we are paid for our skills aren't we, not how often we use them (eg 747 Captain)? I feel that I should be offered the same increase as the rest of the group. This is supposed to be a collective agreement seeking 30% for all concerned. Why then when this was not offered did we allow this present agreement to even get to vote?

So where do I stand now?

Frankly unless someone can demonstrate to me a COLLECTIVE unity to seek an EVEN pay increase for the entire group I am going to vote Yes. Why? Because I see all the other groups getting increases greater than me (Sydney will say that they haven't but the Sydney allowance isn't transparent and who knows what will happen to that given that it is not in the EBA for all to see). If I vote NO all I see happening is my increase being delayed or taken away with split stream agreements etc or reduced to fix something such as offshore increments. Accordingly I will seek to get my money now. I will sit out the 18 months until the next agreement and I will then seek to have the SAR group go its own agreement and fight to even the scales giving us a greater increase in 18 months while the rest of you get CPI, as I believe it will be a relatively easy case to argue (ie parity across the company) and should make a fair legal arguement for industrial action if required.

Therefore by not sticking together now and demanding a collective 30% increase I feel the company has won. Feel free to prove to me that there is support to stick together and get the 30% and I will stick with you. All I see at the moment is a divided group and a well fought company campaign. Accordingly I will take the money and run and tell the offshore group to take a leap when they want a collective agreement in 18 months.
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Fri Sep 19 2008, 23:52

I'm an offshore pilot and now I'm even more undecided! You are calling for a 'collective' and yet you say you will vote 'yes'. Around the traps I was getting the feeling that there were many that are not happy and would vote 'no'. It is near impossible to gauge the 'collective' until you see the results of the vote. There are some who are borderline. Sentiments like yours could change their minds? The previous EBA only just made it through by a couple of votes. If there are a few who follow you, you may just tip the scales the other way? You might be surprised at how many offshore were planning to say 'no'. How will you feel if the 'yes' vote makes it by one vote? Do you want me to vote 'yes' or 'no' ??????!!!!!
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Sat Sep 20 2008, 02:38

To be honest i have little interest in what EMS or RAAF Sar get paid or what your conditions are. Obviously im in offshore by my own choice, if i ever decided to change stream i would take more interest and weigh up the pro`s and con`s of your pay and conditions at the time. That said, this is why i`m voting No to this EBA in the hope it gets split so you can fight for what you want, we can fight for what we want and we wont have someone to blame again when the vote goes through by 1 vote. We dont do the same job, we dont carry the same amount of people (which in the fixed wing mainly determine`s your pay) and we dont even do the same rosters so why pay the same? Why even try to break down who does what when getting a collective agreement. Give me reason why individual agreements for the different streams wont work and i may change my mind. I hope its a no vote and i hope we ALL get what we think we are worth.
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Sat Sep 20 2008, 06:17

Co pilots only 10 years of increments

Truscott workers welcome to J block 14 square metres of living area yeah right try 6 including bathroom. There is barely enough room for a standard single bed and a desk chair let alone TV/DVD and the ensuite has a basin that only a 2 year old child could put there hands in. Gym and pool will never happen and the accomodation smells like a sewer because the septics were placed right outside the end rooms.

The bonding applies to all employees so if you go onto a new type even after being in the company 15yrs you are bonded, that is a fact. No hardship release.

Overtime ......a joke
Offshore allowance..........a joke

The company are taking us for a bunch of fools, represented by a toothless tiger AFAP who didnt even go back to the commision after the end of the 2 week grace period

The EMS/SAR guys unfortunatley will never been in a position to support industrial action as proved by the recent IRC ruling and subsequent inaction by the AFAP to continue to further our claims. The AFAP has bigger issues at the moment it would appear.
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Sat Sep 20 2008, 10:57

Co pilots only 10 years of increments


You should have moved to SFO by this time, it has been put in place to stop people ralaxing as a co-pilot. This was probably proposed by a captain who is now crying foul his 18 year increment has been removed :(

The bonding applies to all employees so if you go onto a new type even after being in the company 15yrs you are bonded, that is a fact. No hardship release.


Where does it say this, back up your statement. It says "where a NEW pilot" "The philosophy...... from the NEW pilot" there is no mention of existing pilots and no need for any existing pilot to sign anything. Dont sign a thing and you wont have a bond.

The company are taking us for a bunch of fools, represented by a toothless tiger AFAP who didnt even go back to the commision after the end of the 2 week grace period


And the problem lies with the fact that so many have their loss of licence with the AFAP so wont wont to go anywhere else. There are other unions we could and should use, lets work on that for the next EBA and ditch the AFAP.
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Sat Sep 20 2008, 12:02

Becareful about statements of intent or Philosophy, they mean nothing under legal examination.

There is no definition of 'New Pilot". Is it assumed that a 'New Pilot' is new to the company, however one could interperate it as new to the role or new to type. They only area of protection is in the use of the term 'Initial Training' and its definition.

There is nothing in the EBA which specifically excludes existing employees from a training bond. Take note that the Area allowance rate for Darwin/Tindal is different for employees depending on when they joined the company, it specifically refers to a date so there is no ambiguity.

The hardship release rights should not be held by the company, that authority should be held soley with the IRC.
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Sun Sep 21 2008, 00:25

Hi good to see some healthy debate, lets kep it constructive. It seems simple to me for those of us who have been around a while if any ststement can be interpreted 2 ways like the bonding you can bet that the company will read it in their favour.

If you have doubt about anything in the EBA and cannot get a straight answer its simple vote NO.
PS: I note in the EBA that extra rooms are being made available at Truscott are these the J block mentioned.
If so not good at all!!!.
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Sun Sep 21 2008, 02:40

2 years ago I was earning 70K as a Multi IFR Capt (different company), at present i am earning about 95K + EMS, if this eba goes through i will be earning 110K + EMS and in 10 months it will be close to 117K + EMS.
Sounds Pretty bloody good to me! I'll be voting in the Yay.
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Sun Sep 21 2008, 03:31

I am confused as to why some of us think that by paying an Offshore allowance we are splitting the steams. Bristow has effectively the same allowance but calls it a Special Duties Allowance. If Bristow had an onshore component, would they pay thier onshore people Special Duies Allowance - Probably not.

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but when the last offer was on the table back in May, we were calling for a minimum of 30% over 3 year. For me this offer is effectively 22% over 2 years. That will do pig. Its a yes for me.
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Sun Sep 21 2008, 09:06

I for one will be voting yes!
If you want to live your life away from family for a large portion of the year and earn the bigger bucks then offshore sounds like the place for you.
If like me, you value your time at home with the fam more than you value the dollar then this agreement is hard to knock back.
Offshore and onshore seem to be growing further apart to the point that the only common thing is we fly helicopters.
Maybe two separate EBA's will be offered in 18months time. Maybe I am delaying the inevitable by voting yes.
Maybe that's the way of our future?
Time will tell.

Good luck with the vote whichever way you go!
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Sun Sep 21 2008, 13:14

As will I, it's a yes from me. Why? As far as I can see we have what we wanted in so far as an increase in pay. Why move the goal posts now? Our demands have basically been met. I don't believe any good will come of going back to the drawing board with a no vote. 30% pay rise? Un-bloody-believable. Look at any other profession, can you imagine a 30% increase in pay?

I may be a little pessimistic but I reckon there's a recession looming. I'd rather take the money now instead of waiting for the remote possibility of more in the future, I have been stung before and am a bit nervous about all this. "Sorry boys, there wont be any pay increases now, don't you know there is a recession?"

My 2 cents? Stop stuffing around with the details and kill this pig. Vote yes. If you are not happy with the details, bring them up at the next EBA and fight hard for them then as a united team who know what they want.
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Mon Sep 22 2008, 02:12

Did you read the memo out of Canada from the new owners? Sounds like a razor gang to me.
If this gets knocked back, who knows how long this will drag on for and probably gain very little.
A bird in the hand...

The one area I'd like to see fixed is the crap casual rates. $600 / day for a SPIFR Year 18 Captain? What a joke.
I've always been and advocate for % of wage calculation.
Make the company pay for the experience you have under your (ever increasing) belt.

Reluctantly yes.
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Re: CHC EBA Post Vote Negotiations

Postby eba » Tue Sep 23 2008, 10:16

Found this on the dark side, very interesting


Here's a comment I found by an American poster on a Nigerian website which offers a bit more insight into First reserve:

"Give First Reserve a mimimum of 2 years before they dice it up and sell it off. Everytime they buy a company, they make their money quickly and then put it up for sale for another tidy sum. I watched what they did to Powerchokes when they wanted to go public in which they were able to buy the Halliburton Well Testing division and became Powerwell and then when things were going great, they sold them off to Expro for a nice profit. After all that was said and done, things within the ranks in the new group got ugly. Of course, it you want to look at it another way, they helped Weatherford become what they are today"

Based on that, I will be saying YES to the eba. Lets get the money now then in 18 months go back for the other things like year 16 to 18 pay etc.
It would be a shame to get this far and at the last minute find that First Reserve kick it away as they gain control of the company.

Just my thoughts on the subject, feel free to put your thoughts on this site and kick me down.

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