Current CHC EBA Proposal 11/02/08 Update 4
- eba
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- eba
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The pilots rep job might be considered a 'thankless' position and I know I would never do it BUT ........come on boys???? I was surprised to see the reps support the current offer in the first place. Surely they know that the deal negociated is not nearly good enough. Now I am shocked to hear that they are actually trying to convince people that it is good - IT SIMPLY IS NOT. Perhaps trying to justify?
I am horrified that there are actually pilots that are voting yes, especially amongst the offshore blokes. Apart from the fact that the offer is totally inadequate, one should NEVER vote the first offer through. An automatic NO ensures a sweeter offer. They are dangling bait and you guys are suckers to get pulled in. Remember, it is management's job to convince you to work your hearts out for as little money as possible thus maximising profits. Don't believe that money is tight - when did you last fill your tank!
I was one of the idiots that voted through the last one! I am certainly not going to make the same gross mistake.
I am horrified that there are actually pilots that are voting yes, especially amongst the offshore blokes. Apart from the fact that the offer is totally inadequate, one should NEVER vote the first offer through. An automatic NO ensures a sweeter offer. They are dangling bait and you guys are suckers to get pulled in. Remember, it is management's job to convince you to work your hearts out for as little money as possible thus maximising profits. Don't believe that money is tight - when did you last fill your tank!
I was one of the idiots that voted through the last one! I am certainly not going to make the same gross mistake.
- eba
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eba wrote: Remember, it is management's job to convince you to work your hearts out for as little money as possible thus maximising profits. Don't believe that money is tight
This statement is so true, the big sales pitch to help out always comes down from management. If they stopped re acting to problems for a short term fix and were more proactive then they wouldn't have to do this. But it works better for us as there are less drivers getting less experience.
Another week has come and gone, with still no offer? What seems to be the hold up?
And I totally agree, why are the pilot reps so keen to get this over the line? We would be crazy to take a lower offer than Bristows. And I am sure most offshore guys wont except this, (even though it sounds like the Timor guys will vote yes) Any input from the Timor crew to confirm or deny? and why?
- eba
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(And I totally agree, why are the pilot reps so keen to get this over the line? We would be crazy to take a lower offer than Bristows. And I am sure most offshore guys wont except this, (even though it sounds like the Timor guys will vote yes) Any input from the Timor crew to confirm or deny? and why?)
This may have been the case weeks ago but circumstances have changed, with the Bristow deal coming to light you'll probably find a lot of opinions have gone the other way.
To the (Person) that continues to state that "you never accept the first offer" . Did you even submit your response to the pilot reps back in August? Many did not and it seems they are the least "in the know" when it comes to how the process works and I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't the most vocal now. The pilot reps were and are tasked with representing the total pilot group but can only present the views of those that bother to make their opinions known. As I understand they achieved a great percentage of what "we" had asked of them. Sure we can hold out for more, especially in light of the Bristow result as this can only strengthen our position, and most of us are likely to vote this offer down but stop boring those of us who know what day it is with the same posts over and over again!
Edited to keep this post informative and a place to talk not abuse.
This may have been the case weeks ago but circumstances have changed, with the Bristow deal coming to light you'll probably find a lot of opinions have gone the other way.
To the (Person) that continues to state that "you never accept the first offer" . Did you even submit your response to the pilot reps back in August? Many did not and it seems they are the least "in the know" when it comes to how the process works and I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't the most vocal now. The pilot reps were and are tasked with representing the total pilot group but can only present the views of those that bother to make their opinions known. As I understand they achieved a great percentage of what "we" had asked of them. Sure we can hold out for more, especially in light of the Bristow result as this can only strengthen our position, and most of us are likely to vote this offer down but stop boring those of us who know what day it is with the same posts over and over again!
Edited to keep this post informative and a place to talk not abuse.
- eba
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So what do we want?
Well we have had our say on what we don't want, but what would make us vote yes?
The latest EBA update is targeting a few more people in marginal places to try and buy a few more votes. Well this should do wonders for attracting more people into the company. Lets see if the company can bid on new contracts if it cant attract the pilots to fly the aircraft.
I think its small minded to take such a low pay rise thinking only about your own finances and thinking you can just exist in this industry if you don't say anything. We cant expand if we cant attract new pilots, we cant continue to hold contracts if we start losing people to the opposition and are unable to meet the requirements of our current contracts.
People will go to where they are treated best and payed well, bond or no bond. We have already seen that the company didn't have a leg to stand on when one of its new pilots took of without paying his bond back. You shouldn't have to bond people to keep them.
Paying check and trainers more money will just attract money grabbers to the role instead of trainers. Anyone can check but very few can train in a manner that passes useful information to the trainee.
What i want is an across the board pay rise of 20% plus CPI in year one then 5% plus CPI in year 2 and 3, No bond as it shouldn't be necessary if you treat people well. Proper holiday rostering. 15 / 13 sensibly rostered 2 months in advance.
Thats a start anyway.
And one more thing, if the company thinks it just has to compete with other Helicopter companies, just wait for when the large number of pilots currently studying the ATPL (A) start moving to the airlines. It happened in the North Sea and it may soon happen here.
The latest EBA update is targeting a few more people in marginal places to try and buy a few more votes. Well this should do wonders for attracting more people into the company. Lets see if the company can bid on new contracts if it cant attract the pilots to fly the aircraft.
I think its small minded to take such a low pay rise thinking only about your own finances and thinking you can just exist in this industry if you don't say anything. We cant expand if we cant attract new pilots, we cant continue to hold contracts if we start losing people to the opposition and are unable to meet the requirements of our current contracts.
People will go to where they are treated best and payed well, bond or no bond. We have already seen that the company didn't have a leg to stand on when one of its new pilots took of without paying his bond back. You shouldn't have to bond people to keep them.
Paying check and trainers more money will just attract money grabbers to the role instead of trainers. Anyone can check but very few can train in a manner that passes useful information to the trainee.
What i want is an across the board pay rise of 20% plus CPI in year one then 5% plus CPI in year 2 and 3, No bond as it shouldn't be necessary if you treat people well. Proper holiday rostering. 15 / 13 sensibly rostered 2 months in advance.
Thats a start anyway.
And one more thing, if the company thinks it just has to compete with other Helicopter companies, just wait for when the large number of pilots currently studying the ATPL (A) start moving to the airlines. It happened in the North Sea and it may soon happen here.
- eba
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EBA
I totally agree with the comments of the writer above it is time to start telling the pilot reps what we actually want and the figures above sound about right.
As for the targeting of the Sydney crews I agree this is the tactic, I am sure CPI in all the other states increases at the same rate as Sydney. After the last Memo stating that the reps and the company have good working relationship, it seems that bonding of new pilots prior to the new EBA really should give us an idea of their real intent in these negotiations,and it is not to look after us.
As for the targeting of the Sydney crews I agree this is the tactic, I am sure CPI in all the other states increases at the same rate as Sydney. After the last Memo stating that the reps and the company have good working relationship, it seems that bonding of new pilots prior to the new EBA really should give us an idea of their real intent in these negotiations,and it is not to look after us.
- eba
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Dear Company,
If you don't give us what we deserve, I am going to go to BRISTOWS. Its that simple. We know you are reading this.
I know more pilots that are doing the same if you don't up the $$$.
Across te board thanks. Base wage increase and then CPI. Nothing less. No small increases here and there and don't screw the co-pilots either. They are already a % of the Captains pay. DON'T make it more so!!!
I would say we would be happy for 20% straight up and 5% every year. Thats 35% total till the next EBA. What do you think guys Pipe up. Lets hear it
Is this what you would be happy with
If you don't give us what we deserve, I am going to go to BRISTOWS. Its that simple. We know you are reading this.
I know more pilots that are doing the same if you don't up the $$$.
Across te board thanks. Base wage increase and then CPI. Nothing less. No small increases here and there and don't screw the co-pilots either. They are already a % of the Captains pay. DON'T make it more so!!!
I would say we would be happy for 20% straight up and 5% every year. Thats 35% total till the next EBA. What do you think guys Pipe up. Lets hear it
Is this what you would be happy with
- eba
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CPI
It must have CPI or your increase is just keeping up with living costs, don't be fooled by this guys, the only thing keeping CPI at this artificial 3.8% is Chinese cheap electrical imports. The real cost of living has gone through the roof, especially food, housing and fuel.
And i agree, don't screw the co-pilot's.
One of the big selling points when at an interview with CHC was, "We Pay the best in the industry". Do you still pay the best? Is this still the company to aspire to work for?
Put your money where you mouth is.
And i agree, don't screw the co-pilot's.
One of the big selling points when at an interview with CHC was, "We Pay the best in the industry". Do you still pay the best? Is this still the company to aspire to work for?
Put your money where you mouth is.
- helothere
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- eba
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- eba
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- eba
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Totally agree with previous posts re 25 up front plus 5 plus 5 and CPI. Also how about our Seniority increments. I notice CHC Norway go up to year 30. Why are we at year 18. I know that there is not that many pilots who have been around in CHC that long but I am getting close and I hope you all will one day!!
Lets get on with it, vote it out and start serious negotiation.
Lets get on with it, vote it out and start serious negotiation.
- eba
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Eba
Here here for the increment increases, a year 18 captain in CHC with CIR ATPL is on $115,000 plus DTA of say$15,500 per year total $130,500 doesn't look real good against the Bristow year eight in the post above does it.
No love from the company for the loyal after 18 years of service, I also will look okay in a Bristow uniform, who wouldn't for an extra ten to fifteen thousand a year.
So to the company, just sit back and keep saying no.
No love from the company for the loyal after 18 years of service, I also will look okay in a Bristow uniform, who wouldn't for an extra ten to fifteen thousand a year.
So to the company, just sit back and keep saying no.
- eba
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Itis really making me wonder what is going on. Where is the Vote? Are they thinking that they won't put it out?
I think they should get real and just give us the 35% as stated before by umm.... well, 'EBA'.
Been talking to my Bristows mates and a job offer in hand ready to go. Also got a call from another company out there paying more and I can live where I want.
Look CHC, you have to pay what is the going rate. We are going to walk! This isn't a threat. Its just Business and business is great. Either share it or reduce your business, which is going to happen because you won't have pilots anymore.
I think they should get real and just give us the 35% as stated before by umm.... well, 'EBA'.
Been talking to my Bristows mates and a job offer in hand ready to go. Also got a call from another company out there paying more and I can live where I want.
Look CHC, you have to pay what is the going rate. We are going to walk! This isn't a threat. Its just Business and business is great. Either share it or reduce your business, which is going to happen because you won't have pilots anymore.
- eba
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Dear CHC.
As you can see. The boys out in the field are not happy with your apparent kind gester of offering us "a very good EBA with a generous pay increase".
I wonder what you guys would do if the roles were reversed. As you can probably see, you are dealing with professional aircrew here and basically we have had enough with your nonsense.
If this EBA is not resolved fairly, you can expect some of your experienced aircrew (long and short timers) to simply change to a Bristow uniform. The offers are on the table, and it is only the loyality of our pilot's keeping us here working for you-CHC.
At the end of the day, it will all come up to who pays the best. Mortgage interest rates are rocketing throught the roof and people just can't afford to be loyal any more. If you want to keep them you have to pay them.
Save yourself some heartache and retraining of new staff which will costs thousands of dollars and come to the party with this new EBA.
Believe me, EMS, SAR and OFFSHORE have had enough.
You need to hear the boys out in the field with their concerns and suggestions and come up with a fair deal with our pilot REPS.
This is the only industry where professional individuals are not respected for their work skills and not treated with respect by their employers. Maybe the time has come for you to sit down and have a good think at your strategy.
To the pilots- Keep up the replies guys, as this is the only way we will get our pay rise.
Hang in there, You will get your pay rise!
As you can see. The boys out in the field are not happy with your apparent kind gester of offering us "a very good EBA with a generous pay increase".
I wonder what you guys would do if the roles were reversed. As you can probably see, you are dealing with professional aircrew here and basically we have had enough with your nonsense.
If this EBA is not resolved fairly, you can expect some of your experienced aircrew (long and short timers) to simply change to a Bristow uniform. The offers are on the table, and it is only the loyality of our pilot's keeping us here working for you-CHC.
At the end of the day, it will all come up to who pays the best. Mortgage interest rates are rocketing throught the roof and people just can't afford to be loyal any more. If you want to keep them you have to pay them.
Save yourself some heartache and retraining of new staff which will costs thousands of dollars and come to the party with this new EBA.
Believe me, EMS, SAR and OFFSHORE have had enough.
You need to hear the boys out in the field with their concerns and suggestions and come up with a fair deal with our pilot REPS.
This is the only industry where professional individuals are not respected for their work skills and not treated with respect by their employers. Maybe the time has come for you to sit down and have a good think at your strategy.
To the pilots- Keep up the replies guys, as this is the only way we will get our pay rise.
Hang in there, You will get your pay rise!
- eba
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The EMS side of things
Thought you offshore blokes would be interested to know that the EMS blokes (at least the ones on three pilot bases, as far as I know) are talking amongst ourselves and have decided that the time - and thus productivity - provided to the company on the three pilot roster (WP2) is worth way more than a 0.5% allowance increase. We feel a 7.5% increase in the EMS allowance is fair and equitable (and in line with the engineer and crewman EMS allowance), and we are offered 0.5%. This, plus the fact that the lights in the EMS world have gone dim with the effort to get Sydney up and running (short/no notice tours, cancelled and unapproved leave, postponed sim training, and a general lack of attention from the adelaide for anything not attached to NSW) and the global problems of cost of living increases have combined to produce what I believe will be a resounding "no" vote from our part of the company.
I too believe that we are all professionals who have no desire to hurt the company. However, we also have responsabilities to our families to be able to spend at least some holiday time with them, afford to house, clothe and feed them in a manner that is fair for people that have worked so hard to get where we are, have such rare skills and who manage the risks that we manage.
Lets hope that the message gets through so we can all get back to providing the services that we have worked so hard to be able to provide, to both the company and the public.
Regards
I too believe that we are all professionals who have no desire to hurt the company. However, we also have responsabilities to our families to be able to spend at least some holiday time with them, afford to house, clothe and feed them in a manner that is fair for people that have worked so hard to get where we are, have such rare skills and who manage the risks that we manage.
Lets hope that the message gets through so we can all get back to providing the services that we have worked so hard to be able to provide, to both the company and the public.
Regards
- eba
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This is my first addition here and all I have to say is "Pay up or I am leaving!!"
Love all your thoughts guys, at least we are serious about this, even if the company isn't.
I have 2 FIRM offers from Bristows and Jayrow (hey, you let them get bigger) and will go where the money is. I have a family to feed and big bills to pay.
It cost me $70 to get 30 litres of fuel the other day. I can't afford not to go where the money is. Rates, House payments and Fuel are still going up everyday.
Love all your thoughts guys, at least we are serious about this, even if the company isn't.
I have 2 FIRM offers from Bristows and Jayrow (hey, you let them get bigger) and will go where the money is. I have a family to feed and big bills to pay.
It cost me $70 to get 30 litres of fuel the other day. I can't afford not to go where the money is. Rates, House payments and Fuel are still going up everyday.
- eba
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- eba
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The current company proposal must receive a resounding NO vote, if and when it is ever put to the pilot body.
In the last week I have confirmed that between myself, a mate with Jayrow and another with a community EMS outfit I am the one earning the least. All doing the same job!!! WTF CHC?
20% + 5 + 5 + CPI minimum or I am off for a new uniform fitting.
In the last week I have confirmed that between myself, a mate with Jayrow and another with a community EMS outfit I am the one earning the least. All doing the same job!!! WTF CHC?
20% + 5 + 5 + CPI minimum or I am off for a new uniform fitting.
- eba
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