Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 2014)

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ChicoCheco
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Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 2014)

Postby ChicoCheco » Fri Jun 13 2014, 14:06

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/helicopter-traffic-anger-takes-off/2159364/

I know it's few months old, but some of the comments cracked me up. I can feel for people doing night shifts and then morning flying in 2 blade helicopters (or any for that matter) starts, but come on.. Sure we should try to fly neighbourly, but it's kinda impossible if people build/buy houses in close vicinity/under circuit routes.

Your (obviously 'biased' anti-NIMBY) take on this? Why did the Teewah airstrip shut down?
Those buying property/land 'under market rate' for nearby areas/region, probably bank on making a killing on 'value' surges if the airport somehow gets shut down by Council/Government. Yeah, let's force businesses bankrupt, make people working in aviation industry jobless. Ideal NIMBY solution.

I recall 'residents' bitching calling to small heli school about the noise etc, produced by contract training on oldie S61 by other 'nearby' school/operator using the bigger airport, runway lengths and instrument approaches to their benefit. Maybe next time Blackhawks fly in for training sortie break/refuel, tell NIMBY crowd to blame/sue Gov/military and shut them down. Not sure how the helicopter military traffic goes in Australia first hand yet, if they visit civil airports or have their 'secluded'/fenced facility in part of it like in USA.
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Re: Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 201

Postby hand in pants » Fri Jun 13 2014, 23:17

Sometimes I'm embarrassed to be an Aussie. This country has turned into such a bunch of complainers that I get the impression nobody wants anything to happen anywhere.
I would love it if there was a fire near Caloundra and the town was under threat. They'd love to hear helicopters then wouldn't they. And I'd love to be able to say "sorry, can't fly over your area because we make too much noise, you'll just have to watch your house and all of your possessions burn....................."
Of course councils don't help by allowing people to build and live so close to an airport that was there first.
Hand in Pants, I'm thinking, my god, that IS huge!!!!!!!!
ChicoCheco
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Re: Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 201

Postby ChicoCheco » Fri Jun 13 2014, 23:59

HIP, this isn't just Australian/helicopter 'issue'. I mentioned/posted the article because it's relevant on B/S.
Yes, the two blade helicopters, especially R44 make more noise. I watched R66 back in Oregon do some circuits, me being right below the downwind path and it makes difference. Digressing a bit, as usual..

You know, there's little field in UK with aeroplane traffic mostly that has 'noise abatement procedure' giving less chance of survival if engine quits on take off/low level, just because that way it upsets less people on ground? Have a look online for One Six Right doco about Van Nuys airport. It was built in valley with nothing around it. Now being strangled by suburbia, incl extended centerline either end, then NIMBYs go gung-ho. Yes, bizjets do make noise, true.
There's interesting animation of development/enlargement over the years in that movie. Just like the Desiree Horton (attractive female heli pilot in USA) flying HEMS etc, mentioning how people don't realise all the benefits of aviation/local airport to community, be it emergency services, employment, business. Nowadays, new airports aren't built. They're curtailed/closed down/sold off as land for industrial parks/malls/housing. Sad.

I'm also involved in gliding. Most dedicated gliding airfields (usually grass) in UK have very limited or forbidden power traffic besides locally based/PPR motorgliders, that can get in/out quieter and are still legally gliders. They'd face difficulties with council if someone dropped in with tailwheel aircraft or something single engine/light, as it's not 'in planning permission' etc. These aren't even close to built up area either normally.
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Re: Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 201

Postby huey » Sat Jun 14 2014, 00:34

"It used to be one training flight for an hour in the morning and an hour in the afternoon... now it's two helicopters at once flying from 8am to 1pm... it's extremely intrusive, you can't even talk to the person next to you," Mr Thomas said.

Really. When I was instructing at YCDR we flew many more hours than 1 in the morning and 1 in the afternoon.

Idiot.
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Re: Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 201

Postby Twistgrip » Sat Jun 14 2014, 00:59

Nowadays, new airports aren't built. They're curtailed/closed down/sold off as land for industrial parks/malls/housing. Sad.


Just to expand a little on what Chico has stated that once airports are closed its very rare they open again due to public pressures. Below is a link of the drastic measures that were taken to close the famous Meigs field in Chicago and now its a park Oc:= .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqwQbAxhVxs
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Re: Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 201

Postby Capt Hollywood » Sat Jun 14 2014, 01:14

State Member for Caloundra Mark McArdle has arranged for a public forum to be held at the CCSA Hall, 1 Nutley St, Caloundra on Friday, 10am-noon. "We cannot forget that the Caloundra Aerodrome was there first."


I am ever so slightly encouraged by the last line in the article, you don't hear politicians say that very often.

I seem to recall a story a few years ago where there was a group in Melbourne, the Essendon Airport Action Group or something similar, that staged a protest at Essendon airport in an attempt to have it closed. The group was outnumbered 3 to 1 by the opposing group, the 'Save Essendon Airport Group'. I'd happily drive to Caloundra and wave a 'Save Caloundra Airport' placard.

CH. 8)
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Re: Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 201

Postby CYHeli » Sat Jun 14 2014, 02:33

My mind is wondering, what could be the impact on an ASIC of waving a 'Save the Airport' sign?

I remember a few years ago the Kingston Council in Melbourne was wanting to restrict helicopter Ops at Moorabbin Airport. We can't afford to lose the airports.
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Re: Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 201

Postby muppet » Sat Jun 14 2014, 02:41

Absolutely agree. Darn Nimby's. Last time I popped into Bunnings in Caloundra (just around the corner from the airfield), I could hardly hear myself think over the noise of the traffic on the main road. Perhaps we should complain that the traffic noise is putting pilots off their flying and represents a safety hazard.... Wonder if Mr Nimby rings up his MP when a noisy truck goes past at 3am? Fly Neighbourly if you can of course, but there is only so much you can do... (although I guess it can be worse at 'training' airfields due to repetitive nature of flights. But again, training pilots become real pilots who may have to rescue their butts one day... or not? We've got your name and number now buddy...)
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Re: Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 201

Postby SuperF » Sat Jun 14 2014, 03:02

It's happening everywhere. They buy the land cheap because it's under the flight paths, then complain about the noise...

The biggest problem is that there isn't enough money in GA, so as an investor I can make so much more money turning all those acres of grass into a housing development and some commercial/ light industrial buildings. You can then go to the council and tell them of all the extra rates they would get by shutting down your airport, and a whole heap of noise complaints would help to speed up the shut down process.

A few big fires around the area would make them change their view on helicopters, but that only lasts so long, they soon forget....
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Re: Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 201

Postby ozloadie » Sat Jun 14 2014, 05:28

Defence aviation does have hurdles with noise complaints from locals.
Oakey Army Aviation Centre had such a litigant right on the airfield boundary and phone calls went to the tower sometimes within seconds of a suspected "infringement". SAR responses and night flying, was the worst case particularly if you were doing rapid departures, practice autos to the ground on NVG's or pedal emergencies and hadn't realized his property was in the operating or recovery area. He must have been the only civvy to be mentioned in nearly every brief.

Open day display and joy flights at friendly local rates, and aerial pics of their residences to the locals might fracture the masses a bit in favor. They never consider the value of RW to the community in local disasters as mentioned earlier. When the last floods hit QLD, every police officer in a flooded area requested RW support, and I recall at one time 17 helos operating from all quarters and they were over demanded. I can recall also the former QLD police commissioner stating that "helicopters are overrated." (crime rate?)

In the Army we had workshops with the local hospitals, emergency services and councils and it amazed them how much we could do and what they were ignorant of. To us it was second nature but to them who had never experienced aviation at all, they thought they knew, but didn't actually know from reality. Big difference and to ignorant people it can translate to an ignorant fear.

You might try getting the local RW group together to sponsor local competition awards and trophies for sports clubs, doesn't have to be a million dollars, but whatever it is ensure a helicopter figure of logo is on it. Can't hurt!
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Re: Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 201

Postby arrrj » Sat Jun 14 2014, 11:49

HIP is correct. Soon we (Aussies) won't be able to do anything !

Left wing lunacy at it's best.

It's like at BK, a few years ago, "no more take offs from the windsock, main pad only" - why ? (I asked)…because there is an old lady who has complained.

F**k me, and excuse me, wasn't BK there for a while first ? Like forever...

And like many parts of Aus now where you need permission from some unknown (no one knows !) secret person to land…but it's OK to roar up and down a beach in your 4WD…without any concern for safety or the environment or permission !

Good luck to us all.

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Re: Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 201

Postby ChicoCheco » Sat Jun 14 2014, 12:21

I felt like mentioning Meigs field's fate as shown in One Six Right, but dind't want to sound too militant on the topic. I'm sure (hope?) nothing such would happen in Australia.

aaarj, That's the nice thing about flying in USA. Yes, there's some (500ft and built up area min heights etc) rules, but it's less restrictive to helicopters as well.

I regularly landed on gravel bars along two winding rivers, nearby area for confined/off airports, training or later instructing. It's nice to fly down the beach and where deserted, ie no risk of collision with people/cars/objects, set it down for stretching, even if not shutting down.

Lots of tailwheel owners go to beach in their airplanes, or camping middle of nowhere. One gliding club (Buckminster) I stopped by, had 4 or 5 motorgliders (and crew) going to Skegness for nice day on beach when it was hot.

The airspace and places to land in UK may not be as easy as US, but I've heard from more than one person about the German CAA (LBA) and the regulations landing off-airports with aircraft/helicopters.

Pretty much day or three in advance and hundreds of euros, if 'lucky' and approved, so it's mainly HEMS landing anywhere, rest is airport to airport traffic. So, at least in Australia, there's rules about setting up HLS/HLZ which doens't have to be airport, better than Germany.

I'm not talking about some expensive VIP rooftop heliports etc.
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Re: Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 201

Postby Skeeter » Sun Jun 15 2014, 07:23

ChicoCheco wrote:The airspace and places to land in UK may not be as easy as US, but I've heard from more than one person about the German CAA (LBA) and the regulations landing off-airports with aircraft/helicopters.

Pretty much day or three in advance and hundreds of euros, if 'lucky' and approved, so it's mainly HEMS landing anywhere, rest is airport to airport traffic. So, at least in Australia, there's rules about setting up HLS/HLZ which doens't have to be airport, better than Germany.


One of the reasons why the helicopter industry in Germany is nearly non existent.
Replace "day" with "weeks" if you want to get sure your application will be processed in time.

However, this doesn't stop people from complaining when they bought a cheap house on short final of a 60 years old field.
Its not an Australian phenomena :?
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Re: Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 201

Postby FerrariFlyer » Sun Jun 15 2014, 07:48

There are no regulations or rules against people of an obtuse nature setting up house near an airfield and then complaining about the noise.

Many moons ago when I was a junior officer at HMAS Albatross I recall working in the control tower and we'd often receive complaints about various airborne activities - both military and civil.

We had a 'special' lady who established a health/vego and arts/finger painting type retreat on a property along the extended centre line of the north/south runway. Pretty much every time we had a departure on the southern runway she'd call in and chastise us in general, telling us that the airfield was interfering with her clients who were trying to relax, paint trees etc. Eventually, we cracked and politely but firmly informed her in no uncertain terms that the airfield had been operating since 1948 and that she would have been best to conduct more thorough research into the local geography prior to her land purchase in 1998 some 50 years later! She was also advised that, for subsequent complaints, she'd be best to direct her complaints to the minister. Strangely enough, she went quiet after that.

People who move within the vicinity of an airfield should have no recourse whatsoever regarding aircraft activity and the associated noise that comes with airfield. They should, quite frankly, either relocate or just keep quiet.
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Re: Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 201

Postby arrrj » Sun Jun 15 2014, 18:49

FF,

Very funny !

Arrrj
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Re: Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 2014)

Postby Eric Hunt » Fri Apr 29 2016, 10:13

Tonight on the local news, a new "city" was announced as a billion-dollar boost for the Sippy Downs/ Caloundra area, with shops, offices, and a squillion houses - all built around the Round Tank, the northern entry point for Caloundra airfield.

Wonder how long it will be after the first buyer moves in and complains about the traffic overhead?

How long until the inbound traffic is re-routed somewhere else?

How long till Caloundra gets Nimby-ed out of existence? )c/
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Re: Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 2014)

Postby Mallard » Fri Apr 29 2016, 11:35

ahh the tank!... was soooo relieved to see the tank on my first solo there years ago :)

The problem isn't the nimbys... its the bloody property prices! It's the same all around Australia. GA airfields... prime FLAT land cheap to build on and easy money for developers.

It's a shame for places like Caloundra the developers don't have more imagination. If houses backing onto the airfield had a garage out the front and a hanger out the back i'm sure there would be interest. Fly in holiday house anyone??
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Re: Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 201

Postby truthinbeer » Fri Apr 29 2016, 23:47

SuperF wrote:It's happening everywhere. They buy the land cheap because it's under the flight paths, then complain about the noise...

The biggest problem is that there isn't enough money in GA, so as an investor I can make so much more money turning all those acres of grass into a housing development and some commercial/ light industrial buildings. You can then go to the council and tell them of all the extra rates they would get by shutting down your airport, and a whole heap of noise complaints would help to speed up the shut down process.

A few big fires around the area would make them change their view on helicopters, but that only lasts so long, they soon forget....


The residents in the suburb in which I live (Harbord or Freshwater to the yuppies) did not buy under a regular airport flight path yet are subject to joy flight noise. Don't misunderstand the issue, the suburb is adjacent to Victor One and I have never heard complaints about that. I love to duck outside to see what is passing when the sound is interesting. The issue is the local tour operator has his noisy R44s doing way-point turns over the suburb, the slap, slap, slap is loud. Often they are in convoy. 500m east and they could affect the turn over ocean with little disturbance. It all comes down to how neighbourly you want to be I suppose.

If you buy under an airport flightpath however you need to take the downside with the financial benefit.

Mallard wrote:...
It's a shame for places like Caloundra the developers don't have more imagination. If houses backing onto the airfield had a garage out the front and a hanger out the back i'm sure there would be interest. Fly in holiday house anyone??

Good thinking... :D
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Re: Helicopter traffic anger takes off at Caloundra (Feb 2014)

Postby Birdy » Sun May 1 2016, 10:41

Been flying 20 odd years, only house iv ever flown over is my own, and the wife is always greatful to hear the wop wop comen home. ;)

Lifes good when your nearest neibour is 50km close. :)

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