What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

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arrrj
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby arrrj » Sun May 12 2013, 23:10

AU,

No doubt all of the machines listed are lovely.

But you need to ask yourself a few questions (I run a corporate machine which I own).

a) What do you want to do with the machine ? Where do you want to land ? If your idea of fun is to blow into a restaurant for lunch with the family (and it is) then you want to consider the impact that each machine will have on the OTHER people. You may think this does not matter, but blow in via a B2 etc and you won't be allowed back ! You will quickly burn the places that will let you land. You need to pick something quiet so that the other guests don't think the army is landing.

b) Do you want a new machine or one that you really do not know the history of ? The recommendations provided so far will see you spending upwards of $2.5 million. I like new myself, that way you can be 100% sure of your machine.

c) How much do you want to spend running the thing ? $1,500 - $2,000 per hour is a lot to spend just to go to lunch !

d) Do you have your own helipad, your own hangar - if so maybe you can't fit a machine with more than two blades ?

All the best.

Arrrj

PS _ despite the love for the trusty of Jetty, I would keep away from these machines. Too old and the performance is woeful compared to newer machines. 5 up and you won't be flying too far in a Jetty...if at all on a hot day. An L4 is a good thing though.
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hand in pants
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby hand in pants » Mon May 13 2013, 01:24

Just a bit more.
Easier and cheaper to but one of whatever you choose from Australia. It's already on the register and is here ready to go. An engineering inspection prior to purchase will ensure it's up to date as far as CASA is concerned and you won't need to spend any more money bringing it up to Aussie spec and then shipping it here.

" Considering the strong Australian dollar on a purchase negotiated on that scale, you could save at least a couple hundred thousand dollars"

This will NOT happen, you may save a couple of thousand dollars, but it goes on the cost of getting it here and on the register.

Do a lot of investigating before you go ahead. A lot of good advice on here with some exceptions.
As far as training is concerned, with 900 odd hours you shouldn't need a lot to get comfortable and safe. Mike B is good but is he near you?? Any school should have someone who can bring you up to speed on your chosen machine. Do the endorsement and then have an instructor be a "safety pilot" with you if you are going to unknown or "different" landing sites until you are happy.
NVFR is a good idea once you have enough hours in the machine in daylight to feel comfortable. ATPL is a waste of time and money, as is an instrument rating unless you would use it on a very regular basis. If you're not current, you are dangerous.
Hand in Pants, I'm thinking, my god, that IS huge!!!!!!!!
Always_Upright
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby Always_Upright » Mon May 13 2013, 06:08

Thanks to all who wrote in advice, just great!
Dont get up to QLD much but will keep Beckers in mind.
More research required before purchase, will keep you posted!

There is always fun in the journey and not just to be had at the destination!

Happy Flying All!

Thanks

AU
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cassidy_copter
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby cassidy_copter » Mon May 13 2013, 08:33

ATPL is a waste of time and money, as is an instrument rating unless you would use it on a very regular basis. If you're not current, you are dangerous.
Absolutely incorrect!

The next moron who flies VFR into Instrument Meteorological Conditions and ends up in a flaming heap though your aircraft was equipped with basic instrumentation to keep you shiny side up, all those whom will miss you and second guess what went wrong will probably wonder why you never got an instrument rating or used the equipment available to you to get yourself out of difficulty. Back in 1979, though I had an Instrument Rating in a helicopter, I did not have one in an aeroplane, yet. But, my experience kept me out of trouble while flying a Cessna 150 in rapidly deteriorating weather.

My last Instrument flight was 24 October 2011. Do you think I had forgotten how to do it, when I climbed into the Captain's seat 04 April 2013? Six days later, I had passed my Check to airline standard.

Though you may not be current and qualified to fly instruments, you never forget the basics. You might be a little rough, but crap I was able to hold it to +/- 20 feet.

An advanced rating is never a waste of time or money. It simply makes you a better pilot. I earned a Commercial Single Engine Seaplane rating and followed that up with a Commercial Multi-engine Seaplane rating a couple years later, to learn something new and to challenge myself. Do you think those skills might ever come in handy in case of a ditching?

Any school should have someone who can bring you up to speed
Wrong answer. The last thing you need is to receive instruction from someone building flying hours at your expense and who won't be around a year from now, should you want to go back for some refresher training.

" Considering the strong Australian dollar on a purchase negotiated on that scale, you could save at least a couple hundred thousand dollars"

This will NOT happen, you may save a couple of thousand dollars, but it goes on the cost of getting it here and on the register.
Considering the strong Australian dollar on a purchase negotiated on that scale, you could save at least a couple hundred thousand dollars, which could go toward spares, paint, amenities, import duty, et al.(what I wrote in my previous post)

Always_Upright, there is a lot of incorrect information, myth, and complete bullsh!t to be found on this site, because they either do not have enough experience in life or flying, but in their minds they know-it-all. Small men with big egos operating in a fish pond. It is all they truly know. By contrast, I now have ATPLs from seven countries. I never shrink from challenging myself, challenging what I think I know, or re-learning what I forgot or displaced.
Last edited by cassidy_copter on Mon May 13 2013, 11:41, edited 2 times in total.
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Evil Twin
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby Evil Twin » Mon May 13 2013, 09:48

:roll:
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Jabberwocky
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby Jabberwocky » Mon May 13 2013, 09:53

Gets popcorn..
Always upright, I'd take HIP's 'complete bull s#!t' advice any day.
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helothere
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby helothere » Mon May 13 2013, 11:22

Evil Twin wrote:

:roll:
+1

(instead of saying what I really think...)

Jabberwocky wrote:Gets popcorn..
Always upright, I'd take HIP's 'complete bull s#!t' advice any day.


Also +1
blackstump
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby blackstump » Mon May 13 2013, 12:07

well thats the resume pissing contest out the way
awesome mr cassidy you win
but the point being where is the bullsnot in this bunch of input from various people?- plenty on some threads but this one not so bad
I gotta couple of ATPL's as well and plenty of IF time but would not be happy at all in IMC at present as I am not current and if I do not fly IFR more than regularly I am dangerous.
sure as hell would not be happy in a jetty IF without SAS- would this fella??
Also believe that some knowledge can be both a help or deadly; why ?? well inadvertant flight into IMC can be survived by an instrument rating, however for some - low time, low experience persons who allow themselves flight into IMC (now that can be directly related to experience/ lack of in this country with the usual conditions that a private flight will be conducted in) will end as a smoking hole.
you have been flying since Orville and Wilbur but the bloke asking the question has not so while you may be able to +/- 20 and buzz about in the dark can a low time guy without the experience, risk assessment ability and currency?
all the ratings- great but lets not believe this in all cases will save someones (and in this case 5 family members) asses- some knowledge great, hows its used is the big question

here to stifling opinions
cheers
blackstump (not black smoking hole)
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Nawty
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby Nawty » Mon May 13 2013, 14:23

cassidy_copter wrote:
ATPL is a waste of time and money, as is an instrument rating unless you would use it on a very regular basis. If you're not current, you are dangerous.
Absolutely incorrect!

The next moron who flies VFR into Instrument Meteorological Conditions and ends up in a flaming heap though your aircraft was equipped with basic instrumentation to keep you shiny side up, all those whom will miss you and second guess what went wrong will probably wonder why you never got an instrument rating or used the equipment available to you to get yourself out of difficulty. Back in 1979, though I had an Instrument Rating in a helicopter, I did not have one in an aeroplane, yet. But, my experience kept me out of trouble while flying a Cessna 150 in rapidly deteriorating weather.

My last Instrument flight was 24 October 2011. Do you think I had forgotten how to do it, when I climbed into the Captain's seat 04 April 2013? Six days later, I had passed my Check to airline standard.

Though you may not be current and qualified to fly instruments, you never forget the basics. You might be a little rough, but crap I was able to hold it to +/- 20 feet.

An advanced rating is never a waste of time or money. It simply makes you a better pilot. I earned a Commercial Single Engine Seaplane rating and followed that up with a Commercial Multi-engine Seaplane rating a couple years later, to learn something new and to challenge myself. Do you think those skills might ever come in handy in case of a ditching?

Any school should have someone who can bring you up to speed
Wrong answer. The last thing you need is to receive instruction from someone building flying hours at your expense and who won't be around a year from now, should you want to go back for some refresher training.

" Considering the strong Australian dollar on a purchase negotiated on that scale, you could save at least a couple hundred thousand dollars"

This will NOT happen, you may save a couple of thousand dollars, but it goes on the cost of getting it here and on the register.
Considering the strong Australian dollar on a purchase negotiated on that scale, you could save at least a couple hundred thousand dollars, which could go toward spares, paint, amenities, import duty, et al.(what I wrote in my previous post)

Always_Upright, there is a lot of incorrect information, myth, and complete bullsh!t to be found on this site, because they either do not have enough experience in life or flying, but in their minds they know-it-all. Small men with big egos operating in a fish pond. It is all they truly know. By contrast, I now have ATPLs from seven countries. I never shrink from challenging myself, challenging what I think I know, or re-learning what I forgot or displaced.



You might have a lot of experience cc....but I really tire of reading about it and you telling everyone else.
Zebt
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby Zebt » Mon May 13 2013, 21:04

Same old same old.

Was a great thread until someone said something negative about someone else's post. Just give it up. If you don't like what someone has said either politely disagree (pretend you are writing to your Grandmother) or PM them and move on.
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby Heli » Tue May 14 2013, 02:40

blackstump wrote:well thats the resume pissing contest out the way
awesome mr cassidy you win


Hang on, I haven't had a go yet :wink: Oh bother, I've only got 6 ATPLs as well and only 57 IR renewals :P

Regardless, the OP should be able to make a valued judgement on the sensible posts here: there is a lot of good advice so far. A night rating and a swag of flights with a reliable safety pilot to sort out habits before they go bad will be of far more value than going for IR from the implied private use opined so far.
Last edited by Heli on Tue May 14 2013, 08:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby Always_Upright » Tue May 14 2013, 08:53

Hi Everyone

Sorry to cause a riff between everyone.
In regards to NVFR I am just wanting a night rated machine for when I get back just after dark. I always seem to miss end of daylight by an half hour or so. Decided years ago to get a night rating to cover myself. Its hard to get the kids back onboard when they are having fun somewhere and your running out of time to remain Day VFR. I would never fly after last light if the weather was marginal.

Not really interested in IFR flying though most machine I have seen include most bells and whistles.

I have noticed that nobody has made comment about the R66? Are they really that bad as not to get a comment. Not really a fan of the shape of robbies .
Found another thread on the site with many saying Robbies are disposable. Laughed hard with that one, might be true!

Could be divorced soon anyway with all the time researching choppers away from the misses, Might just start looking for single seater!!

Again thanks for the feedback

AU
arrrj
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby arrrj » Tue May 14 2013, 09:06

AU,

Well, now that you have mentioned a Robinson product, the people that were divided and fighting prior will now simply split in half ! :roll:

I am a fan (well documented on this site) of the 66, and have flown it a fair bit - more importantly I have a mate that has one and he loves it - I think he has done around 300 hours now. There is no question the 66 performs far better than documented. Fuel burn is also lower, it's easy to fly, smooth (for a two blade) and just a nice thing to be in - particularly in the front - leather armchairs ! (sort of). 5 up, 2/3 fuel, OGE hover, 30 degree day, no problem.

It's on my list (along with some of the others listed above) as a new purchase in the future.

Now, please fasten your hardhat for the Robbie Bashers to come out of the woodwork ! **^**

PM me and I will give you more information - I (too) am sick of getting bashed and the "same same" that comes out when this subject is mentioned.

All the best.

Arrrj
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby FerrariFlyer » Tue May 14 2013, 09:09

Always_Upright wrote:Sorry to cause a riff between everyone.


No apology needed. Forums occasionally take some weird, wonderful and unfortunately undesirable directions.

Always_Upright wrote:In regards to NVFR I am just wanting a night rated machine for when I get back just after dark. I always seem to miss end of daylight by an half hour or so. Decided years ago to get a night rating to cover myself.


Smart move to get the NVFR training...even smarter if you do your utmost to plan your outings so that you do not have to use it. Give yourself an extra bit of time as a margin to round up the kids or your mates whatever the case is and get going a few minutes earlier. Flying at night on the odd occasion when you get caught out would not be a comfortable position to be in, particularly with precious cargo onboard.

Heli wrote:
Hang on, I haven't had a go yet :wink: Oh bother, I've only got 6 ATPLs as well and only 57 IR renewals :P



I am crawling back into my humble, dark little hole with my solo ATPL and IR renewals I can count on 1 hand :oops:
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby SuperF » Tue May 14 2013, 09:55

just leave one of them behind one time. A mate, not a kid!

believe me, from that day on, when you have a time that you are leaving they will all be lined up waiting to be loaded onboard well before the designated time.

ive only had to do it once, years ago, while driving not flying, but all of a sudden everyone else turned up on time.

it might be seen as harsh, but sometimes people need to be reminded that through all the fun and games, you are the most important person there, as you are responsible for getting them all back home safely.

regarding machines, im surprised no one has mentioned the EC130B4.

im a Bell man so would say the Long Ranger or 407 would be my pick, and they are still the best looking helicopter out there.

depending on your budget, a 206L1/C30 could be a very good option, bigger than the JR, one more seat than an AS350, for the odd occasion that you need it, really good realiable engine, with heaps of power. two bladed so fits into a far smaller hanger, and you can make them fly really smooth. A good engineer can get a two bladed helicopter extremly well balanced.

the reason that a lot of people wouldn't recomend the 66, apart from it being a Robbie, is probably the unknown factor, it is still a new helicopter, and the fact that you have the 12 year limit to use up the hours, otherwise you just throw them away. if you plan on 200hrs/year, then maybe alright for you. They are also quite tight in the back, so depending on the size of the kids, they may not fit in... plus the 66 is butt ugly!
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby SPOAR » Tue May 14 2013, 10:11

If you want to be around for awhile than dont get a Robinson !! As350 or 206 are good machines or if you want a real mans machine try a MD500 or MD520N !!
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Eric Hunt
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby Eric Hunt » Tue May 14 2013, 10:40

Flying a 500 is like singing karaoke - the people around you don't enjoy it.

Back seat space and headroom and noise is just rubbish.

get a stretch machine if you have a family. A Longranger 4, a 407, or an AS350. They will appreciate the extra space. A B206 is just too small.
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby SuperF » Tue May 14 2013, 11:13

i got told that a 500 is like a great 2 seat sports car with a big boot!

unfortunately the op wants to carry 5.
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby Evil Twin » Tue May 14 2013, 11:39

You're on the money there SuperF. 500 is like a fast bike, great fun but no good with passengers.

The pick of the bunch for the OP is either a longie or the BA squirrel or Super D with Geneva panel to get rid of some of the unreliable French bits. B2 would be great but a bit of a waste and the 407 or 130 are fabulous but overkill. EC120 looks the nuts but won't cope with the growing family long term.

Personally I'd go for a Super D but it ain't my cash.

ET
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Re: What is the best chopper for passenger transport?

Postby KNOW NUFFIN » Tue May 14 2013, 12:22

Help , whats a super D???

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