Sydney question re private takeoff

General discussion from the very important bit between the carpark and the flight line.
Ausrod
New Member
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Sep 2016

Sydney question re private takeoff

Postby Ausrod » Tue Sep 13 2016, 21:35

I am considering getting a licence and a heli. The goal here is to get myself to and from Orange weekly. I dont live anywhere near BAnsktown (I live on the North Shore). Where can i park and take off and land? Ideally could i get a permit to land on a vacant block somewhere like belrose? HAs this been done before? Any ideas anyone?

No point driving to Bansktown as I may as well drive to Orange with traffic etc.
User avatar
hand in pants
4th Dan
4th Dan
Posts: 1484
Joined: Sep 2006

Re: Sydney question re private takeoff

Postby hand in pants » Tue Sep 13 2016, 22:55

Many, many answers to your question.

Most of them no!

Council will stop you from using the vacant block, as would some if not all of the people who live near it.
I'm pretty sure that all CAA requires is the "land owner/operators permission, but, council stops that.

In short, move to Bankstown, which would not be smart, or continue to drive to Orange.
I think your basic idea is good, but logistics will bugger it up while ever you live in sydney. The unfortunate thing with living in Sydney is the complete lack of helipads/heliports in the area and the absolute lack of support from local council.
Hand in Pants, I'm thinking, my god, that IS huge!!!!!!!!
Ausrod
New Member
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Sep 2016

Re: Sydney question re private takeoff

Postby Ausrod » Wed Sep 14 2016, 04:42

anyone have any experience with ANY of the councils? R
godfather007
Gold Wings
Gold Wings
Posts: 178
Joined: Apr 2008

Re: Sydney question re private takeoff

Postby godfather007 » Wed Sep 14 2016, 20:06

Hi Ausrod.

HIP is right, Most Councils will try to bully you based of complaints from neighbors as they have to follow up on complaints.
You need permission from the land owner or own the land. There are minimum area sizes to abide by, clear paths for approach and departure etc...
You will find there are a handful of private owner operators around the Terry Hills area that utilize their wrights regarding Helicopter use.
Im not willing to get into a discussion about them for there privacy, so you can do your own investigating from here.
I fly home for the purpose of getting to and from work and live in a area of acreages with great neighbors.
Get a good Solicitor and ask them to write you a letter based on (Warringah Shire Council -v- Ruffles -1978 - 38 -LGRA 306) When the Council knock on your door, hand them the letter and you are sure to not hear back from them provided you stick by the rules and movement restrictions implemented By CA$A and EPA.


Good luck and chase the dream.
User avatar
bladepitch
3rd Dan
3rd Dan
Posts: 615
Joined: Jul 2006

Re: Sydney question re private takeoff

Postby bladepitch » Wed Sep 14 2016, 21:17

Id love to read about coucil vs Ruffles. Not getting any hits on google. Care to share that story? In brief even...
Footprint Productions
Gold Wings
Gold Wings
Posts: 110
Joined: Apr 2011

Re: Sydney question re private takeoff

Postby Footprint Productions » Wed Sep 14 2016, 22:48

Hi Guys,

I currently keep MyHeli at home and also fly to work (joy flights) with the council being OK with it.

I live on the Central Coast and have an acreage and all but one nieghbour has no problem with it. He complained to council and they told him I had every right to get to work in the heli. No permit or permission required.

HOWEVER, there are limitations. 7 movements per week, no more than 2 in one day, day VFR only, plus the others GodFather mentioned. I must also never bring customers to my home.

On top of that, use your common sense. I have taken all the goods neighbours kids flying, and I'm very respectful of the neighbour that doesn't like it. I text him before every movement to warn him, he goes out for coffee, just because it's allowed I don't get cocky.

I also pick guests up from theirs homes but I require a minimum of 2.5 acres for buffer to neighbours.

Cheers
Matt
arrrj
2nd Dan
2nd Dan
Posts: 345
Joined: Jul 2012

Re: Sydney question re private takeoff

Postby arrrj » Wed Sep 14 2016, 23:01

Ausrod,

Anyone operating a helipad (private ops) or heliport (public ops) in Sydney has council approval. This includes all the news pads and all the ones on the outskirts of Sydney - including the numerous ones in Terry Hills. CASA is not involved other than by rubber stamp, as long as your pad is compliant to 92-2 (from memory).

There is no approval required for casual landings (apart from the rules - pilot and landowners permission etc), but don't keep your machine there overnight, as council will be all over you and I think it's a $6k fine (will have to check with my mates who have enjoyed this impost).

Approval via council is very complex and expensive. I know, I have lodged a couple of the years. Hundreds of pages of BS, including measured sound from various machines etc.

That said, everything has changed over the past few years. Sydney basin councils have all updated their LEPs (Local Environment Plans), basically copying each other. I don't know who started the trend, but whoever did wrote in a section concerning Prohibited Developments that says something like "airstrips, airports, helipads & heliports". Which (in short) means that you simply cannot submit an application (which would be by way of Development Application) for a helipad - as it is automatically prohibited.

It's a mess for anyone wanting to operate within the basin, and those who have helipads approved are approved forever - and therefore increasingly worth a lot of money. There is one property in Terry Hills that has been for sale for a couple of years at twice what it is worth for the house & land - because it has an approved pad - and the current owners know that one day a rich chap will front up and pay the money.

Remembering that whilst Sydney is Australia's world city, we don't even have a helipad in town !

The whole thing is disgraceful, and in many ways an attack on our freedoms. Even Packer couldn't win at Palm Beach - and he surely threw enough cash at it in court.

See if you can befriend someone with an approved pad...and shout him regularly.

Arrrj
arrrj
2nd Dan
2nd Dan
Posts: 345
Joined: Jul 2012

Re: Sydney question re private takeoff

Postby arrrj » Wed Sep 14 2016, 23:05

PS - Matt beat me to it. Outside Sydney is possible. Note Matt that the Gosford LEP has also changed...you may want to read up on that before your neighbours do ! (You can't even land where the sea planes do now...no sand banks or mud flats at low tide - and it's specific).

Somersby (private airstrip) is also worth a try. Not too far from North Shore of Sydney.
User avatar
Eric Hunt
3rd Dan
3rd Dan
Posts: 786
Joined: Sep 2006

Re: Sydney question re private takeoff

Postby Eric Hunt » Thu Sep 15 2016, 07:51

Sydney's only commercial heliport that is not at Mascot or Bankstown is at Parramatta, on the speedway south of Rosehill. easily accessed from the NawShore down Pennant Hills Rd and James Ruse Drive.

You could base yourself there, pay for hangarage, and never worry about noise complaints from the Sydney end. Orange may be another matter.

Private landing sites are as rare as rockinghorse droppings, and getting rarer.
Gonsky
1st Dan
1st Dan
Posts: 252
Joined: May 2016

Re: Sydney question re private takeoff

Postby Gonsky » Mon Oct 3 2016, 20:42

I never knew about the speedway one, that is an interesting choice. I too have been looking into this as looking to get some acreage within 4 hours of Sydney and come in twice a month.

True that Sydney is a major international city an yet no heliport, I love helicopters yet even I notice the number of flights around the harbour and they are all probably 800 ft +. If there was a pad somewhere on the harbour i am sure the number of movements would be massive and it would be an issue. That said the new area around Barangaroo where Packer has built the new towers could have been a perfect place and he could have got it through with the initial development outlay. They could have limited the noise through approach planing but yet they didn't. Clover would have probably been against it anyway.

I was initially looking around the southern highlands and there is zero chance to get a pad there even if your on 500 acres, talked with the council and they said it is no issue putting in an application yet would ultimately get blocked. There are some old strips that seem to be grandfathered in yet they are all less than 800 mtr but the helipad is an issue.I have just gone out further and found even more acreage and helipads are no issue.

Highlands is like Sydney lots of people with influence and don't want helicopters. Everywhere I have lived OS have had very open policies to helipads and yet in a land mass the size of Aus it is a problem????

Regards,
'Mankind has a perfect record in aviation - we have never left one up there!'

Return to “From the Hangar Floor”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest