RFS

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havick
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Re: RFS

Postby havick » Tue Dec 18 2018, 03:29

Evil Twin wrote:Ya know if I had access to funding I’d be doing like others and buying up old blackhawks and converting them to fire fighting assets. There is a global market outside of the Australian fire season and there’s profit to be made. Would be good to see an enterprising state organisation like RFS getting these assets to pay some of their own way in other hot(pardon the pun) spots through the year.


Only issue with Aussie modified helicopters are that most of the mods are done by way of EO and not STC. As a result the fire agencies (eg USFS) won’t approve/card an aircraft to operate on fires or other government contracts unless the mods have an STC.

That’s why you still see some aircraft running around in the US with old snorkel pumps on s simplex tank, as the STC hasn’t caught up to the new pumps from KAWAK etc
Last edited by havick on Tue Dec 18 2018, 04:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RFS

Postby Evil Twin » Tue Dec 18 2018, 03:57

Thanks for the info dude. I've no experience in that side of aviation sadly but it's an interesting subject. There were a couple of firehawks arrived in Bankstown a couple of weeks back but they've since deployed elsewhere. Good payloads as I understand and the airframe itself is well proven, I'd love to have a go in one.
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Re: RFS

Postby havick » Tue Dec 18 2018, 04:13

Evil Twin wrote:Thanks for the info dude. I've no experience in that side of aviation sadly but it's an interesting subject. There were a couple of firehawks arrived in Bankstown a couple of weeks back but they've since deployed elsewhere. Good payloads as I understand and the airframe itself is well proven, I'd love to have a go in one.


Its easy for US aircraft to come to AUS as all their paperwork is perfect as far as STC’s etc go given they’re already carded by USFS etc and that’s their requirements.

Try taking an aircraft the opposite way with a bunch of EO’s instead of STC’s and they will not pass a carding inspection nor an FAA conformity check.

Canada is pretty much the same deal.

As for sth America or Europe I have no idea.
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Re: RFS

Postby Heliduck » Tue Dec 18 2018, 07:59

Even more restrictive in Canada, not allowed to use ex mil aircraft for civilian commercial operations full stop.
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Re: RFS

Postby robaussie99 » Tue Dec 18 2018, 16:50

Heliduck wrote:Even more restrictive in Canada, not allowed to use ex mil aircraft for civilian commercial operations full stop.


I’m not sure we’d want to. The military aircraft here aren’t exactly spectacular.
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Re: RFS

Postby SuperF » Wed Dec 19 2018, 08:58

Robaussie,

No ex military aircraft on civil ops in Canada. Oz would have far less firefighting helicopters without ex mil aircraft.

Take away the following
Hueys
Blackhawk
Chinook
Skycrane...

Still a few big helicopters but far less than they have now.
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Re: RFS

Postby Hello Pilots » Wed Dec 19 2018, 10:37

SuperF wrote:Robaussie,

No ex military aircraft on civil ops in Canada. Oz would have far less firefighting helicopters without ex mil aircraft.

Take away the following
Hueys
Blackhawk
Chinook
Skycrane...

Still a few big helicopters but far less than they have now.


Not necessarily, probably just have more Canadian machines over :D
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Re: RFS

Postby robaussie99 » Wed Dec 19 2018, 13:48

SuperF wrote:Robaussie,

No ex military aircraft on civil ops in Canada. Oz would have far less firefighting helicopters without ex mil aircraft.

Take away the following
Hueys
Blackhawk
Chinook
Skycrane...

Still a few big helicopters but far less than they have now.


I think you missed my point. Even if we could use ex-mil aircraft in Canada, the military doesn’t operate any aircraft here that you’d want to use.

We don’t have huey’s
We don’t have black hawks
We don’t have chinooks
We don’t have skycranes

Or at least not in any considerable number to make it worthwhile.

We have sea kings, some 206’s, some heavy 412’s and aw101’s that we won’t be retiring for another 100 years.

All would be terrible on fires.
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Re: RFS

Postby havick » Wed Dec 19 2018, 13:58

SuperF wrote:Robaussie,

No ex military aircraft on civil ops in Canada. Oz would have far less firefighting helicopters without ex mil aircraft.

Take away the following
Hueys
Blackhawk
Chinook
Skycrane...

Still a few big helicopters but far less than they have now.


Skycrane are built new now.
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Re: RFS

Postby Hello Pilots » Wed Dec 19 2018, 22:03

robaussie99 wrote:
SuperF wrote:Robaussie,

No ex military aircraft on civil ops in Canada. Oz would have far less firefighting helicopters without ex mil aircraft.

Take away the following
Hueys
Blackhawk
Chinook
Skycrane...

Still a few big helicopters but far less than they have now.


I think you missed my point. Even if we could use ex-mil aircraft in Canada, the military doesn’t operate any aircraft here that you’d want to use.

We don’t have huey’s
We don’t have black hawks
We don’t have chinooks
We don’t have skycranes

Or at least not in any considerable number to make it worthwhile.

We have sea kings, some 206’s, some heavy 412’s and aw101’s that we won’t be retiring for another 100 years.

All would be terrible on fires.


I think you have missed the point of using ex-military machines.
It doesn’t speculate that the countries military has had to operate that model of machine in order for the civilian world to utilise them.
An example of this is that providing all paperwork was in order, I could bring a Hind over to Australia and throw a bucket on it and sit in Cessnock on CWN.
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havick
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Re: RFS

Postby havick » Wed Dec 19 2018, 22:35

Hello Pilots wrote:
robaussie99 wrote:
SuperF wrote:Robaussie,

No ex military aircraft on civil ops in Canada. Oz would have far less firefighting helicopters without ex mil aircraft.

Take away the following
Hueys
Blackhawk
Chinook
Skycrane...

Still a few big helicopters but far less than they have now.


I think you missed my point. Even if we could use ex-mil aircraft in Canada, the military doesn’t operate any aircraft here that you’d want to use.

We don’t have huey’s
We don’t have black hawks
We don’t have chinooks
We don’t have skycranes

Or at least not in any considerable number to make it worthwhile.

We have sea kings, some 206’s, some heavy 412’s and aw101’s that we won’t be retiring for another 100 years.

All would be terrible on fires.


I think you have missed the point of using ex-military machines.
It doesn’t speculate that the countries military has had to operate that model of machine in order for the civilian world to utilise them.
An example of this is that providing all paperwork was in order, I could bring a Hind over to Australia and throw a bucket on it and sit in Cessnock on CWN.


He was talking specifically Canada with regard to ex-military aircraft restriction
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Re: RFS

Postby Hello Pilots » Thu Dec 20 2018, 03:39

I'm quite aware of that.
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Re: RFS

Postby robaussie99 » Thu Dec 20 2018, 07:00

Hello Pilots wrote:
robaussie99 wrote:
SuperF wrote:Robaussie,

No ex military aircraft on civil ops in Canada. Oz would have far less firefighting helicopters without ex mil aircraft.

Take away the following
Hueys
Blackhawk
Chinook
Skycrane...

Still a few big helicopters but far less than they have now.


I think you missed my point. Even if we could use ex-mil aircraft in Canada, the military doesn’t operate any aircraft here that you’d want to use.

We don’t have huey’s
We don’t have black hawks
We don’t have chinooks
We don’t have skycranes

Or at least not in any considerable number to make it worthwhile.

We have sea kings, some 206’s, some heavy 412’s and aw101’s that we won’t be retiring for another 100 years.

All would be terrible on fires.


I think you have missed the point of using ex-military machines.
It doesn’t speculate that the countries military has had to operate that model of machine in order for the civilian world to utilise them.
An example of this is that providing all paperwork was in order, I could bring a Hind over to Australia and throw a bucket on it and sit in Cessnock on CWN.



Let’s just snap back to reality for a second.

Nobody would actually do that

The US sells their ex-mil aircraft to public operators because there is a DEMAND.

nobody WANTS a hind for Australian firefighting ops, nor doesn’t any Canadian firefighting operation actually WANT any aircraft currently being flown by the Canadian military

Don’t be rediculous with your replies.
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Re: RFS

Postby SuperF » Thu Dec 20 2018, 08:36

Robaussie,

You are missing the point that everyone else is talking about. If ex mil aircraft were allowed to operate in Canada, then there would be all sorts of Huey’s, blackhawks, Chooks, etc, with buckets on, fighting fires in Canada.

They are all perfectly good aircraft to throw water on the ground/trees, it doesn’t matter if it’s a 205 or UH1, if you bone them out the same and put the equivalent parts into them, then they lift the same weights. There is no magic that lets a civil machine lift more than an ex mil machine.

As for Canadian machines, I would be happy to take some of the old Sea Kings or 412’s bone them out of all the heavy military crap, hang a bucket underneath, good to go.

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