Notar 'hard landing'!

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Capt Hollywood
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Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby Capt Hollywood » Fri Aug 4 2017, 21:42

https://youtu.be/3XbF9qqHRLQ

Notar 'hard landing'! As far as I know they all got out.
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Twistgrip
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby Twistgrip » Fri Aug 4 2017, 23:51

Crickey!. Not sure if it was luck,skill or both but great job keeping it on the ridge and not rolling down the slope.
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby arrrj » Sat Aug 5 2017, 02:51

Holy sh*te. Made me feel sick to watch that.

:(
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby Eastwoodblade » Sat Aug 5 2017, 03:19

What actually happened, no more authority from the tail?
Rotary as in not the Wankel engine...
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby Twin Head » Sat Aug 5 2017, 05:44

Nice recovery
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Cleared Hot
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby Cleared Hot » Sat Aug 5 2017, 12:39

This is a md explorer right. We all remember HAWCS little mistake slinging aircon units, loosing tail rotor on these suckers is not uncommon. So so lucky this guy was.
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rotors99
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby rotors99 » Sat Aug 5 2017, 13:31

This crash had diddly squat to do with the fine machine & everything to do with the bloke at the helm! Exceed the operating limitations of any machine & it'll bite you hard, deservedly hard :x Mountain flying is never to be taken for granted, but some Dopey Pricks do Oc:=
Frightening to watch.....bloody lucky Ground Crewie & the PAX :D
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby Sideshow » Sat Aug 5 2017, 22:37

Rotors99 How do you know he was operating outside the flight envelope. I do not know if your a hundred hour pilot or have 20 thousand hours accident free in PNG but tell me then (assuming he is operating within limits), in the same situation what would of you done differently?

He had the power in early with a fairly flat approach with escape routes to his left initially and over the ridge later on. Maybe he had a plenty of pedal up his sleeve when he touched down and there was a wind shift. Maybe his crewman started loading the pax before the pilot had given him the ok to do so. Maybe the fan that shoves the air down the tail boom disintegrated. Who knows (not you)

This is one of the few crashes I have seen where the pilot looked to be making reasonable decisions from an outside vantage point. Obviously we do not know if he was operating within limits or what the gauges were reading. But you don't know he was exceeding anything.

I think this guy was flying well and got caught out by a wind shift. It looks like maybe he tries to get the machine over the ridge after the first 360.

Poor bastard got caught.

And he was not even flying like a dickhead!
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby theyeti » Sun Aug 6 2017, 00:20

Thanks for posting Sideshow, I hope people will afford me a little benefit of the doubt if and when I stack in front of an iPhone audience. Assuming the previous poster doesn't have inside knowledge of course.
The very next video on YouTube is the story on Servus Television. The Ops manager said after talking to the pilot there was no Power Reserve or technical problems involved.
I notice that the manager of an OPPOSITION company offered to the media that the helicopter COULD have been overweight and the extra weight of the patient COULD have been the issue. I think I will wait for the official report before forming an opinion.
Note my command of the Austrian language is average so I won't garentee my translation of the News clip. I will guarantee the newsreader is hot so worth a look.
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rotors99
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby rotors99 » Sun Aug 6 2017, 03:02

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBotAIhRid4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XbF9qqHRLQ

Video clips (better quality above) the PIC had reached his pedal limit LTA so was operating outside the machine limits. First hand info from a Pilot/Operator from there; it was ISA+15 there that day & machine was likely overloaded................................... :!:

Hey Sideshow, only 10,000hrs zero accidents, over half that in the Himalayas above 10,000' - well above, with 1,356 Mountain Rescues 8) hmmm what I'd have done? If I'm already on the limits pre arrival I wouldn't have attempted to land let alone pick someone up for starters. Looking at his approach he'd have surely known he was topped out on either power &/or pedal :?:
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby arrrj » Sun Aug 6 2017, 04:30

Sideshow,

It is very nice of you to jump to the defence of the poor NOTAR driver. However, if you had been reading "slapper" for a while, you would have realised that probably the most experienced guy on here that operates at great heights is Mr Rotors99.

I'd be inclined to believe him first, and defend others later. I am far less experienced than Rotors99, but it did look to me that he was on the limit...and then over that limit.

Rotors99 operates B3s at 25,000 feet, plus, daily. WAY too high for me. 500 feet is good for me.

Cheers,
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby SIR_SMP » Sun Aug 6 2017, 06:27

I heard that Rotors99 has a mural of a Robby painted on his bedroom ceeling and at night he looks up and secretly fantasises about flying them :p :P :wink:
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby rotors99 » Sun Aug 6 2017, 09:22

As far as recovery goes.......if Your in LTA or LTE & lost it spinning like a top; pull in a bit more power to get some height clear of obstacles then lower the club & dive down the side of mountain for some airflow over the rear fins & BINGO no more spin, by the time You get to Your near sea-level landing site, You've burnt a bunch of petrol (lighter) & with the thicker air a safe landing will be surely assured :D trying to go back to that spot on that pinnacle....yikes, no thanks )c/ I'd have thought that's basic training in emergency recoveries?

Thanks Sir arrrj....I'm still in-training Mate, everyday getting a little better :idea:

Dear SIR_SMP...I think You've confused with lookin' @ Your own bedroom ole Mate, mine has a mirror up there so as I can see the back of me Mountain Woman :o
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby Jabberwocky » Sun Aug 6 2017, 11:19

Cleared Hot wrote:...loosing tail rotor on these suckers is not uncommon...


You run out of torque before you run out of pedal with the notar system.

Just for arguments sake, is it even possible this pilot simply lost their fan? As in, a drive shaft or similar?
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby Sideshow » Sun Aug 6 2017, 15:28

Every single experienced VFR utility pilot has had close calls that could of gone either way (if you don't think you have, either you have not been paying enough attention or are not experienced or in denial because you think you are so awesome and never make mistakes).

Maybe this guy had one go the bad way.

Or
Maybe his pedals were incorrectly rigged.
Maybe his engine topped 1 before it reached 100 percent due to the engine having some sort of problem causing him to overpitch lose a bit or RRPM at the crucial time which decreased the tail rotor authority.
Maybe his torque gauge was under reading and he was unknowingly pulling 10 percent more than he thought he was resulting in the anti torque system not providing the required thrust.
Maybe his bleed valve stuck open.
Maybe he suffered hypoxia due to a sickness reducing the 02 carrying capacity of his blood and was about to go home sick but a rescue job came in and he thought he would be right.
Maybe that fan thing did actually break (someone must have some in depth knowledge of those whacky contraptions).

Rotors I guarantee you have had a close call which could of resulted in a rolled up machine. Maybe one day there will be a video uploaded of you, losing reference, whilst landing in fresh powder and balling up a squirrel on a glacier with 5 pax on board. Then I will be defending your momentary lapse in judgement from some goon who was not there and just saw the video. When in reality your boss decided he did not want to pay for air filters on his squirrels any more and your Ariel 2 sucked in a cup full of snow and stopped.
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby kiwiflyer » Sun Aug 6 2017, 19:06

Or or maybe the sky might fall in and come through the rotor blades, all the ifs, buts maybes in the the world don't change the fact that this guy made a mistake by landing where he did in regard to the altitude. And I'll be the first to admit that it can happen to anyone, it's happened to me but putting all these unrealistic scenarios up as to why the poor pilot crashed is just suger coating a good old fashioned cock up.

I doubt the TQ was anywhere its maximum at that altitude but I guarantee the pedal was and also doubt that there was any mechanical failure.

He had ample warning to abort the landing and fly away, note the tail yaw in the latter part of the approach before he puts a skid on I would bet the pedal hit the stop even then or would have been close to it.
When it starts to turn the rpm can be heard to droop so engine would have topped.
He has plenty of height at one part of it to fly away as someone else has suggested but if you haven't had the the training to do this it is it is a big ask for the pilot to think about flying away or knowing how to do it while doing donuts on the top of the hill.
I think his situation got worse as he got closer to ground as he may we'll have lost some of the wind component on the nose as he got lower to the ground combined with power increase until he got a skid on.

He will be a lot more experienced now that's for sure.

And just a wee side note slider, just because someone puts a honest opinion of what he thinks happened and pretty accurate IMHO, it's very shallow to say you hope to see them all over the Internet after having an accident, bad call cobber.
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby Sideshow » Sun Aug 6 2017, 23:23

I actually purposely did NOT say that I hope rotors makes an error resulting in a crash.

I don't wish anyone rolls up a helicopter. I said if he did, I might be on here defending him from slaggers explaining it can happen to great pilots given enough time bad conditions and a lapse in judgement.
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rex bivouac
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby rex bivouac » Mon Aug 7 2017, 02:48

Looks like Mast Bumping to me.
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby Yankee » Mon Aug 7 2017, 03:05

Don't know that particular type of helicopter. But pretty darn sure that mast pumping would be impossible.
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Re: Notar 'hard landing'!

Postby heli2o » Mon Aug 7 2017, 03:07

Yankee wrote:Don't know that particular type of helicopter. But pretty darn sure that mast pumping would be impossible.

I think you are taking the bait

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