Do hours really matter?

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FerrariFlyer
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Re: Do hours really matter?

Postby FerrariFlyer » Sat Aug 30 2014, 06:29

Eric Hunt wrote:
Gannets are seabirds comprising the genus Morus, in the family Sulidae, closely related to boobies.


Perhaps you mean "gamut", although I like the idea of being related to boobies...


You're absolutely right there Eric. Damn it I meant gamut, not gannet.

But the relation to boobies is somewhat appealing I must agree.
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haroldthehelicopter
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Re: Do hours really matter?

Postby haroldthehelicopter » Sat Aug 30 2014, 06:51

Eric Hunt wrote:
Gannets are seabirds comprising the genus Morus, in the family Sulidae, closely related to boobies.


Let's not get to wrapped around the ankles with gramma and spelling Eric.......,

Geez fellas. It's not that bloody hard to 'stay alive' in the EMS environment. I think this is one of those agree to disagree points so I won't flog the horse. I get the need to have a baseline, but I know A LOT of military/ex-military lads who would be WELL under your mark Eric and (and the 'ludicrous' minimas that prevail) and be more than capable of 'surviving' the EMS environment.

One of them.
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Re: Do hours really matter?

Postby SuperF » Sat Aug 30 2014, 08:27

The problem with guys that are well under the mark that has been discussed, is that they don't know what they don't know.

Forget about better training and all that stuff, at some point you still need appropriate hours in the book. You need that experience. Nothing wrong with those minimums.

It also does another thing, by keeping the minimums up, it helps to keep the pay rates up a bit.
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FerrariFlyer
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Re: Do hours really matter?

Postby FerrariFlyer » Sat Aug 30 2014, 09:17

HTH...I don't completely disagree with you and understand the point you're making.

Below is a link with some compelling figures:

http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/helic ... loser-look
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Re: Do hours really matter?

Postby dark horse » Sun Aug 31 2014, 04:20

SuperF wrote:Forget about better training and all that stuff, at some point you still need appropriate hours in the book. You need that experience. Nothing wrong with those minimums.

.


Yeah. Advanced targeted skill based training and all that other 'stuff' like appropriate skill based experience counts for nothing. Having 3000 hours of flying S&L day VFR tourism in the book will give you all the tools you could ever need. Oc:=
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Re: Do hours really matter?

Postby SuperF » Sun Aug 31 2014, 05:27

"Appropriate" was also what I said. I never said 3000 hrs of S&L.

You would hope that after 2-3000 hr that the particular pilot has done 2-3 x more of each task than a 1000 hr pilot, therefore should have 2-3 x more experience to draw upon when in a very difficult situation.

And for the previous conversation regarding Flight time v running time, I get about 20-30% more time if I log from start to blades stop instead of skids up/down.

For a 1000hr pilot from NZ going to OZ that would be a significant difference in experience between two pilots.
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Re: Do hours really matter?

Postby muppet » Sun Aug 31 2014, 06:31

And i reckon that anybody who is an EMS captain and has less than 3000 hrs is a lucky person

Would have to agree with this. Not absolutely black and white, there may be some who have the experience required with less hours, but would need to be a special candidate. Not that the EMS world is a place where only demi-gods may walk, but more due to the huge range of taskings. Simply put, anything and everything comes up at a time when you least expect it, and certainly do not desire it. Dealing with the decisions is often the hardest part, (sure, at times the flying can be pretty challenging), and it ain't just slinging the same bunch of trees day in and day out (something I can't do, so no offence to long-liners).

Geez fellas. It's not that bloody hard to 'stay alive' in the EMS environment. I think this is one of those agree to disagree points so I won't flog the horse. I get the need to have a baseline, but I know A LOT of military/ex-military lads who would be WELL under your mark Eric and (and the 'ludicrous' minimas that prevail) and be more than capable of 'surviving' the EMS environment.

Sure, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and it sure ain't always black & white, but often Military pilots have many hours of training and sorties that follow long and detailed planning marathons. Switching into the real world of quick decisions and limited support is not always a perfect transition for all soldier types. Just saying.
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haroldthehelicopter
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Re: Do hours really matter?

Postby haroldthehelicopter » Sun Aug 31 2014, 07:49

SuperF wrote:"Appropriate" was also what I said. I never said 3000 hrs of S&L.

You would hope that after 2-3000 hr that the particular pilot has done 2-3 x more of each task than a 1000 hr pilot.


I've never seen a job ad asking for 2000 PIC 'Appropriate' Hours?!? By your own statement you disagree with the concept of total hours as a definitive indicator.

As for your second comment, I don't think many competent pilots would agree that accumulating 'appropriate' flying experience is a linear progression based on factors of 1000, or any number for that. Except for contracting agencies and insurance companies of course.

muppet wrote:
but often Military pilots have many hours of training and sorties that follow long and detailed planning marathons. Switching into the real world of quick decisions and limited support is not always a perfect transition for all soldier types. Just saying.


Big generalisation and misconception by many civil blokes that this is the norm. On the contrary, army crews on short notice postures (generally black hawks dudes on medevac or special ops standby) in my experience tended to be better drilled and MUCH faster off the mark. The most hasty planned and fastest reaction missions, EMS and other, that I have been involved were in the military. Granted, not true for all army folk though.

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Re: Do hours really matter?

Postby bangequalsbad » Sun Aug 31 2014, 10:42

I think SuperF was trying to say that providing a 980hr driver (1000 seems to be getting punished) all of the
dark horse wrote: Advanced targeted skill based training
still won't provide the level of EXPERIENCE/EXPOSURE TO SITUATIONS that a 2980hr driver has had IN BROARD TERMS. It stands to reason that
dark horse wrote: Having 3000 hours of flying S&L day VFR tourism
will have EXPOSED you to more takeoffs and landings than
muppet wrote:just slinging the same bunch of trees day in and day out
for 3000hrs. And then the
muppet wrote:demi-gods
have twice as many engines to start as most of us...so they have been EXPOSED to more possible hot starts (per starting event).
It never ends!
And lets not get into Mil V Civ...once you guys eat your way into a twin you all become precious! **^** (Take cover)

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