Conversion to EASA Part66

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rotormech
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Conversion to EASA Part66

Postby rotormech » Fri Oct 4 2013, 13:14

Just chasing info.....if any, in regards to converting my CASA licence to EASA.

Anyone out there done it??

I have emailed both the CAA and EASA generic email systems and got pretty straight forward answers of EASA don't recognise any foreign licences for conversion, and all the exams need to be sat.....

I'm not buying this just yet.

I'll to sit all the exams if need be, but I'd rather not have too if possible......
ChicoCheco
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Re: Conversion to EASA Part66

Postby ChicoCheco » Sun Oct 6 2013, 09:06

Welcome to EASA system.
Flight crew, mandatory 'ground school' courses costing few grand even for people who know enough to self-study. Waiver only with heavy stuff experience and only from the mandatory ground school, not the exams.

Part 66? Why should it be any different? If anything, there should be LESS recognition of foreign engineer/mechanic/technician/LAME/smokie/fairy theory exams.
Well, there's plenty docs on EASA website and if I were you, I'd check out AST Perth for 'distance courses' or possibly ICAT in Wales (have 'intimate' knowledge of them).
I've got HUGE stack of all the Part 66 books/notes, most of it dropped at my parent's place across Europe. Right price AND postage secures it.

Upside is, there's no mandatory theory courses required to sit Part 66 exams unlike FCL system. Depending on which 'country of issue' you prefer (Asia and Africa seem to have higher regard for UK CAA), check any foreign locations to sit exams. Ie Kuala Lumpur as satelline UK CAA examination centre. Not sure other cities/countries close to Australia. There's bit of premium on top of regular exam fee for KL for example.

I'd sell you my 8 or 9 passes out of 13 (B1.1, some only need essay re-done and MCQ needs redoing Mod 11a and 7 IIRC), if I could. Kinda useless to me alredy.

You think your exams are the hard bit? Depending on what aircraft and companies you've worked on so far in your career, you may find it even more difficult to get the full licence (not just exam credits) as they're fairly picky. Working for large company that does contracted downroute mx and is on foreign Part 145 list as approved by one of the EASA member countries, definitely helps. I don't have first hand experience with that, though.
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Re: Conversion to EASA Part66

Postby fenestron » Sun Oct 6 2013, 14:26

Rotormech,

I asked a couple of our engineers about your situation and they have responded by saying you will be forced to complete all your theory exams here in the UK, there is no exemption.....EASA for you.......
rotormech
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Re: Conversion to EASA Part66

Postby rotormech » Fri Oct 11 2013, 23:35

What a pain in the a**e!

No matter, no I just have to start researching which exams I need to complete exactly. Aviation Australia offer EASA exams, I just worry about the actual recognition of them in Europe.... Study study study I suppose.... Yay.
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Re: Conversion to EASA Part66

Postby AHIA » Sat Oct 12 2013, 04:20

Rotormech.

You have started a very good thread and the replies to date indicate how much trouble there is getting accepted in nations who apparently are EADS "harmonised". In effect, this makes the role of a future technician limited until he or she spends a lot of time and possibly money getting a handle on how he or she can obtain the type of work they are requiring.

The AHIA is presently setting up a working group to sort our the oddities associated with training a helicopter LAME.

Basically, CASA controls the standards and issue of a license and the Depart of Education their version of the training. At present both do not recognise each other's training below Diploma level - see AHIA thread and join with us in getting some standardisation within the technical rules, and stop all these re-examination problems or at least reduce the needs.

We are getting short of technical people; especially, as the new machines need highly qualified maintainers. Just look at how much some are being paid at present?

Please join the AHIA and help our mob get the big people into a room and ask them tell us why there is so much confusion!

AHIA
ChicoCheco
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Re: Conversion to EASA Part66

Postby ChicoCheco » Mon Oct 14 2013, 23:38

rotormech,

Work experience in these companies in Australia/elsewhere should help to get the full certifying privileges.
http://www.easa.europa.eu/approvals-and ... rt_145.pdf

Now that Aviation Australia was mentioned, I looked it up.
https://www.easa.europa.eu/approvals-an ... rt_147.pdf
It figures here, so they are approved to provide training towards EASA exams/licenses/type ratings.

Don't be silly, saying that 'proper' EASA exam taken abroad is not the same as taken in the UK. I mean, validity wise. Of course it'd be fine.
That's why I mentioned Malaysia, as I was aware of Malaysia as an example, since some of my ex-classmates on the Part 147 school Part 66 course I did, hadn't passed all the modules/exams before they left to Malaysia since graduation on that course was mid-July, not autumn. They then redid those (or meant to at least) in KL.
rotormech
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Re: Conversion to EASA Part66

Postby rotormech » Tue Oct 15 2013, 12:27

It sounds bloody hard regardless where I sit my exams.....
I've heard of an engineer here in Australia and an engineer at NHV in Belgium. After both passed their factory courses, 6 weeks after return to Australia, the Aussie had his CASA licence sorted. 4 months later, the NHV engineer was still having issues getting his licence approved because he wasn't able to provide a document from Eurocopter stating exactly how much practical training there was on the course.

It's not like this guy was after his first rating either. He had over 10 years previous licenced on several large airliners, and now he already had several helicopter ratings.

It just sounds like its a lot harder to get a licence happening in Europe.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm dead keen to get it sorted and will definently be contacting Aviation Australia about the exam requirements for a B1.3 under EASA.

Would have been nice to just have a simpler, and slightly cheaper conversion.

If anyone has a link to a document about which modules are required, would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Conversion to EASA Part66

Postby ChicoCheco » Tue Oct 15 2013, 23:05

rotormech,
there's tons of info 'out there' on EASA modules.
Mind you, the M7, M9 and M10 have multichoice AND ESSAY, A4 sized on 'salient points' on topic.

http://www.lrtt.co.uk/easa-part-66-cate ... cence.html has succint list as an example.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO undertake courses to sit the exams, as I mentioned earlier, although familiarisation with the 'kind of questions' helps. Some of the stuff is dead boring so to speak, like M6, M7. The first handful are the easy/basic ones. I haven't looked at CASR system of exams for LAME, but basically M12 is helicopter specific and you'd also do the M15 - gas turbine engine. You may want to sign up for M10 - air leg, rest of info/knowledge is more 'transferrable' between countries.

http://www.easa.europa.eu/rulemaking/te ... ations.php
Would be good starting point crunching the regs, scroll down to Certifying staff (part 66)

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 801:EN:PDF
(consolidated version of the regs that have some mx licensing crew stuff in it besides other things, haven't seen the changes in 2013 myself yet)

Shame I'm hauling too much personal stuff to Australia and most of my Part 66 notes are in one of two European countries. They're pretty HEAVY as well.

Yeah? Well, my friend, 320 rated Part 66 engineer said that his buddy submitted work experience docs for full licence (certifying privileges) day or week AFTER rest of his few colleagues and he had lots of headache for months. UK CAA ain't much better. The hardest thing for you would be having your experience 'considered' for meeting the full licence issue, not just the exams credit. Which is why I posted the Part 145 outside EASA airspace links, that could help you in decision making. I honestly don't know how much use it'd be for helicopter side, but if you do airliners mx as well, then it's not much extra exams for B1.1 and adding category, ie B1.1 to includ B1.3 is easier.
rotormech
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Re: Conversion to EASA Part66

Postby rotormech » Tue Oct 15 2013, 23:53

Thanks heaps bloke!

I'll be having a read.

I did have a look at the list of pt145 companies you posted, and like you said, not much help for rotary wing unfortunately.
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Re: Conversion to EASA Part66

Postby Sol » Mon May 11 2015, 08:38

Hi Guys,

Sorry to re-open an old thread but I've been trolling the web looking to see if there is an easy way to convert CASA part 66 licence to an EASA part 66 licence. From what I've been reading it appears there is no easy way without doing all the modules. I was wondering if anyone has some insight if it's possible just for a straight conversion from CASA to EASA (after sitting an admin exam or something) now that CASA has pretty much fully introduced it's Part 66 system to align to EASA. I realise that the last posts here came to the conclusion that it's not possible, but can't hurt asking considering over 18 months has passed since the last post.

Regards,

Sol
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Re: Conversion to EASA Part66

Postby 350355 » Mon May 11 2015, 14:17

I just went through the ICAO CPL(H) to EASA conversion process in the UK with licences from NZ, Australia and the US, and well over 10,000 hrs PIC helicopter.

Here what you have to do, there's no way round it!

There are some paperwork hoops you have to jump through, but the main elements of the conversion are:

* Undertake an EASA approved Theoretical Knowledge course at an EASA Approved Training Organisation, which includes 2 individual weeks of consolidation at the school facility

* Take and pass all 13 x Theoretical Knowledge Examinations, 14 for ATPL

FYI, there are restrictions on the number of times you can take each individual exam; fail any exam 4 times and you start the whole process all over again. No credit given for the TKEs you've already taken and passed and back to school you must go, so think seriously about in what order you want to take the exams, and make sure you know your stuff for each exam. I used CAPT as my training school and managed to avoid any retakes (many thanks Phil/Paco!)

Of all the "new" (read irrelevant) stuff I learned in the hundreds of hours of home study undertaken to ensure the exams were passed timely for the above reasons, I have since put just one solitary thing to occasional good use. The rest can, and already has been dumped!

* 1st class EASA medical (for the UK it can only be taken at CAA House, Gatwick)

* Flight training as required for the skill test

FYI again, you must be recommended to EASA for the skill test by the Head of Training of the flight school, and EASA must approve that recommendation before you can take the skill test, which might be a sticking point if you try to limit the training as required to just 2.1 hrs to save money!

* Take and pass the skill test.

Good luck if you are going to convert to EASA, you'll need it if you don't put in hundreds of hours of mind numbing unnecessary work, and expense naturally! Study course fees, test prep questions (highly recommended,) hotel bills, food expenses, multiple commercial flights and/or rental car costs, TK exam fees, flight training (~ 5 hrs is acceptable to EASA,) skill test examiner fees, and licence issuance fees of course!

After all that, I am going to throw a curved ball at you here. You can fly in EASA land on an EASA issued Validation of your foreign licence for limited period of time, but there are restrictions of course. You never really get anything for free in aviation!

An EASA 1st class medical, a bunch of correctly completed paperwork including sending (or taking) all your log books to the Aviation Authority in the country in which you wish to fly, and a paid fee of course may/should get you a 12 month Validation of your ICAO CPL(H) or ATPL(H).

Once the Validation is issued, you may fly commercially in EASA land until the expiry date of that Validation, but you may only fly commercial Aerial Work (read utility) and you may not fly passengers (apart from employees of the company for whom you fly - they are not considered to be passengers!)

Before your initial Validation expires, and only if you are enrolled on an approved theoretical knowledge course at an EASA Approved Training Organisation, and can prove that you really are working towards converting your ICAO licence to EASA and not just trying to get a freebie ride in EASA land for a few more months, your Validation may be extended a further once only and for a further limited time; the length of which is at the mercy of the Aviation Authority in that country. Expect 3 - 6 months, buy a lottery ticket if you get 12.

By the expiry date of that extension, EASA firmly believes you will have had sufficient time to convert your licence, and a further extension will not be entertained. You may claim that extreme circumstances have prevailed and that you wish to contest the length of extension afforded to you; this can be done citing point 2, Annex III, A. Commission Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011 which states that "...the extension shall cover the period of time necessary for the licence to be issued in accordance with Part-FCL", however, it seems that each Authority within EASA has an "interpretation of the rule" card they sometimes like to play, so good luck with that!

The ICAO to EASA conversion is lengthy, of that there is no doubt. However, a lot can be done to prepare for the conversion before hand. There's nothing stopping you from buying the conversion course books, getting your head into them in a big way, doing all the hard yards in your spare time waiting at a rig, or when it's a down day for weather, then nipping over to EASA land for a 3 week holiday and doing the 2 week long consolidation courses back to back if it can be arranged, then sitting all 13/14 exams in one go during the last week of your holiday!

From there, you'll know which exams you've passed and can forget, and can concentrate on the ones you blew for your next trip over. You never know, you might pass them all first time, it's been done plenty of times before - maybe not in one sitting though..!

Out of interest, you can now sit UK based EASA Theoretical Knowledge E-Exams at Jerez in Spain, Orlando in the US, and Sepang in Malaysia. Other countries may follow in due course, contact the UK CAA for more information.

From there, once you have all 13/14 exams passed, you can knock the flight training and skill test out in 2 weeks easily. All the small piston engined aircraft are available in the UK, plus 206s, 350s, 355s, 109s, and maybe 500s. 135s are in country for training of course, but I don't think they are currently available for commercial skill tests as they have to be operated by the CPL(H) ATO, and on their books for CPL(H) training and examination!

BTW, the training organization will respect and treat you as a CPL/ATPL, just not a licenced one in their country. Their mission is to polish you to be able to pass the EASA skill test under the guideline "training as required". Expect 4 - 7 hours unless you are already a qualified CFI/TRI/TRE/FX on type in the local area!

The oral part of the skill test examination is fairly non existent so to speak, there is no major quizzing like in other countries, however the examiner can ask you any question pertaining to the preparation of your pre-flight paperwork, the weather, etc, and of course the skill test flight itself.

For the skill test, the navigation section is 3 parted and 1/2 the skill test battle, the rest is general handling, both emergency and non-emergency.

Start honing your skills on using a map again, including how to unfold and refold it whilst flying as a GPS is not allowed during the test (apart from the diversion part of the nav-ex.) If there is no GPS physically installed and hard mounted in the aircraft in which you take the test, tough, an auxiliary GPS is not allowed!
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Re: Conversion to EASA Part66

Postby ChicoCheco » Tue May 19 2015, 23:49

The last post talks about atpl pilot exams, part 66 is about engineering/mechanic staff.

SOL,
I'd be more concerned about the EASA Part 145 org experience for full EASA licence than the theory exams. Yes, no way around not sitting all exams, but honestly, having passed most of them myself in the UK (doing 147 course) it shoudlnt be great deal for experienced engineer. The hardest modules are M11, M6 and M7, aiframes/structures, materials&hardware and maint practices, respectively. Those should be easier for people within industry, although few areas on wooden structures (yes!) may need to be studied extra even for B1.1 or 1.3.

Do check the acceptable experience with some EASA country, to avoid disappointment/Catch-22 situation starting or finishing the exams but unable to get full licence..
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Re: Conversion to EASA Part66

Postby stick_monkey » Wed May 20 2015, 04:03

Great post 350355. I'm sure people heading over will benefit in advance from knowing the way that the EASA/new CASA rules align/don't align
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Re: Conversion to EASA Part66

Postby paul187 » Sun Apr 10 2016, 04:26

For all interested in converting CASA part 66 licence to EASA part 66.

Gary Smith at Queensland Aerospace is currently engaged in developing this process and has made significant progress. The facts to date are: Queensland Aerospace has entered into an arrangement with BMVIT (Austria). They are in the process of approving the CASA licence in their national training framework. This will lead to Queensland Aerospace running short "Gap" courses and then you will be issued a EASA part 66 licence under the BMVIT authority.

I will be entering into this process as soon as it kicks off.

On another note, this process is intended to be developed for Gulf country. I am also in the process of converting my CASA part 66 licence to Canada (TC). This involves using my NZCAA licence (you can get this through the TTRMA). NZCAA has a bi lateral agreement with Transport Canada.
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Re: Conversion to EASA Part66

Postby wayne » Sat May 21 2016, 17:35

thnxs Paul187 for the info. Should i contact Gary frm QAC for futher details?
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Re: Conversion to EASA Part66

Postby efilnikufesin » Sun May 22 2016, 10:29

Thanks Paul for the information.

FYI when i converted my NZ CAA license to the TC license it was accepted as meeting the training requirements and then i had to sit 8 exams. I think their is only 4 exams now. See TC CAR's Part 5 566.07(1)(e).

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