Roadtrip Australia

[sebbo]

Hey there

First a little bit of information about me:
I have 850h in Robinson R-22 (most of it) and R-44 helicopters.
I worked as a flight instructor in the US for around 1 year. I am from Europe.
I don't have a working permit for Australia (and I am not eligible for the Working Holiday program).

So with that said, I was thinking of traveling to Australia in a few month to visit helicopter companies and see
how the chances are that a helicopter company would sponsor/hire me.
What do you think of this plan? Which part of the country should I focus on? I think in the
South East it would be mostly for Flight Instructor jobs in the main cities. Should I focus on those cities
or the more remote areas (North West) for non-FI jobs? I will probably have around three weeks time to visit as
many companies as possible.
Any other thing which I could do before my trip to improve my chances for a job?

Thanks for any advice
Seb

[as350_nut]

probably get a visa or work permit would be my suggestion... insurance reasons for operators.. just a thought

[havick]

Try all the regional/bush tourism operators. Sometimes having a 2nd language can help with employment in that field as well as the fact that sponsorship is much easier for an employer to obtain for remote areas.

I don't think you will have much luck in any major cities or metro areas, but there's no harm in trying. good luck

[cassidy_copter]

Do you watch a program on tele titled, Border Security?

If your scheme and intention is to come to Australia for economic opportunity or as an economic refugee (we have enough, already) . . . you might get rejected, upon entry, especially if Immigration/Customs go through your suitcase and discover all the things you would need to impress a prospective employer.

And, wouldn't your post be all the evidence they need to reject your Tourist Visa?

Hey there

First a little bit of information about me:
I have 850h in Robinson R-22 (most of it) and R-44 helicopters.
I worked as a flight instructor in the US for around 1 year. I am from Europe.
I don't have a working permit for Australia (and I am not eligible for the Working Holiday program).

So with that said, I was thinking of traveling to Australia in a few month to visit helicopter companies and see
how the chances are that a helicopter company would sponsor/hire me.
What do you think of this plan? Which part of the country should I focus on? I think in the
South East it would be mostly for Flight Instructor jobs in the main cities. Should I focus on those cities
or the more remote areas (North West) for non-FI jobs? I will probably have around three weeks time to visit as
many companies as possible.
Any other thing which I could do before my trip to improve my chances for a job?

Thanks for any advice
Seb

[Flyting]

I don't have a working permit for Australia (and I am not eligible for the Working Holiday program).

So with that said, I was thinking of traveling to Australia in a few month to visit helicopter companies and see
how the chances are that a helicopter company would sponsor/hire me.

You answered your own question.....

Do you watch a program on tele titled, Border Security?

my second thought...
an expensive way of getting air miles, a numb bum and the opertunitiy not to visit Australia for the next few years

[havick]

What's with all the negative sentiment (it's only another helo driver having a crack and trying to broaden his/her horizons)? There's nothing wrong the the guy doing a bit of research whilst on holidays in Australia. If he manages to find something then apply for a work visa/sponsorship etc.. The only catch is to not work or intending to do so whilst on holiday in Australia.

I'd also convert your licence to an Australian one, otherwise the company that sponsors you (if you manage to get one) may have difficulties doing so. Someone correct me if that is incorrect. Of course only spend the $$ doing that on a student visa if you have something lined up.

Good luck finding a sponsorship. There wouldn't be many opportunities out there, but I've seen it done in the past on a couple of occasions.

[cassidy_copter]

What's with all the negative sentiment . . .

Havick . . . there are plenty of unemployed or under employed helicopter pilots right here in Australia, whom are Australian citizens or Permanent Residents.

Why are Australians up in arms about Gina Rinehart importing migrant workers? Why are Qantas Engineers upset about their bread and butter offshoring their jobs they have enjoyed for 20 years or whatever?

What were pilots upset about back in 1989, during that labour action, when the Bob Hawke government undermined their position, and brought in foreign pilots to cross the picket.

And, there are up and coming fresh Aussie helicopter drivers being generated nearly every month whom will need work.

Law of supply and demand, Havick!

Now then Sebbo, if you want to come to spend your tourist dollars here, that is great. No place better. Then, go visit a CASA Office in a major city, apply for a licence validation, you will be issued with a Validation for Private Pilot Privileges, then go rent a helicopter, with an Instructor. The Validation will get you pointed in the right direction. You might then visit Department of Immigration and ask to convert your visa to some sort of student Visa or hire a Migration Agent to ask on your behalf. Go through the process. Sit the various exams you will need to convert your overseas licence . . . Do the Flight Test, etc. Can you legally look for work? Depends on the conditions of your Visa. Allow yourself about two years to accomplish all this and build the hours you need to qualify for your first job.

[havick]

I say piss off!

So how about all the Aussies flying in Canada, USA, Middle East, Thailand, Indonesia etc etc etc etc.....?

If one person is a better applicant than another then so be it... I don't agree with protectionism. If someone can get sponsored, good on them.

[cassidy_copter]

Havick,

Thailand, Middle East, Indonesia, China, do not have enough of their own pilots to crew aircraft, thus need expats.

USA, well, "Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" . . . AND, they flood across the Mexican border like the ship loads of supposed refugees making their way to Christmas Island . . . a drain on the economy and infrastructure.

How many are economic refugees? How many whom claim they fled an oppressive religion or regime continue that, after they come here?

[J]

Cassidy...... I hope I don't know you ( just because I'll hear about this tomorrow)...

I with havick.... Supply and demand! Best applicant wins, because the best applicant is in demand.

J

[havick]

Cassidy you're entitled to your opinion. I don't see it the same way.

What's the harm in someone over here on a holiday doing their due diligence, working out they need to come back here on a student visa to convert their licence and then get sponsored after everything is said and done.

** I noticed you dropped off Canada in your previous response... Seriously, like they;re short of drivers? But there's still Aussie expats flying there.. It's a bit hypocritical of us to expect to be able to get work somewhere else and then s#!t anyone else that tries to gain work here on the same premise.

[UnObvious]

I'm all for giving the local bloke a go over an import.

But sometimes the local guy doesn't have the minimums, or the attitude, or whatever else.

Fortunately for me, not enough Canadian drivers had the minimums for the job I'm in now, and fortunately for me, the company didn't employ an attitude like Cassidy. Some may even say fortunately for my future employers in Australia, I'm broadening my horizons and getting experience here every other day that is normally done by pilots thousands of hours my senior in Australia. This is due to all the wonderful insurance requirements and the mindset in the Australian industry that if someone doesn't have a specific amount of hours, they haven't got a snowflakes chance in hell of doing the job safely and efficiently, and therefore should not be given a chance.

Do the NSW RFS minimums still include 50 hours fire time? How are you supposed to get that time if you're not allowed to fly on a fire until you have 50 hours fire time? In Alberta, Canada, it's low-viz training, 500 hrs total time and a 20 minute online course, and off you go. Bucket away.

Sebbo - Good luck to you mate. If you get a gig, great. If not, enjoy your holiday in the best country in the world.

[cassidy_copter]

Attitude?

Last March, I met an Australian pilot from Queensland, who has been sleeping in his car, in the bush. He is an older and well qualified pilot. And, he did not seem to have an attitude, except that he was hungry and keen.

I had been Chief Pilot, on previous occasions. I would have hired that pilot, in an instant. It seems that all he needed was someone to give him a chance, recognise his long-term potential.

I met an older IT professional, driving a bus. The Global Financial Crisis and offshoring his job made him redundant.

I met a guy with a Masters Degree, mopping floors and collecting shopping carts from the parking lot at Woolworths, with a quick, broad smile, who is over-qualified, the wrong colour and older. Three strikes against him.

Consider Doctor Teo, a world renowned brain surgeon, who has designed specialist surgical instruments, who is an Australian, but of Chinese ancestry, who speaks with a natural Australian accent -but, cannot get a position in Australia . . . due to tall poppy syndrome. WTF are you all afraid of? Being shown up?

I met a former Australian Defence Force officer, who held the rank of Major who was driving a bus, in Adelaide. I wondered how did he arrived in that position.

A fellow pilot could never gain employment in Australia, so his career has taken him to Africa, Afghanistan, China, and now New Zealand. We have sat across the table from each other many times, we worked together, and he had been a passenger on my aircraft - a top bloke. Why can't he gain employment in Australia?

There are plenty of very well qualified Australians, whom are throughout this "lucky country" not given the chance, whom are in the same situation, from all walks of life, with a variety of knowledge, skills, and experience to offer an employer, whom are in the same situation as the gentlemen I described, above.

The lucky ones are able to gain employment overseas, where their experience and maturity and apparent over-qualification needed and are appreciated. Why the hell do you think I spent the past five years flying in China, because I like Chop Suey with a side of spicy pig ears?

So, it is easy enough for you to say, if you have got a job flying some IFR twin and earning good coin. You are comfortable, for the moment. Someday, you will likely end up as another unemployment statistic, well qualified, well experienced, and older, but cannot get a job and you will scratch your head and wonder, "Why, what's wrong with me?"

There are plenty of well-qualified Australians, whom meet or exceed hiring minimums, insurance requirements, et al, but are never seriously considered nor given a chance, for one bull s#!t excuse or another or mistakes made by the HR staff or favouritism or nepotism or discrimination.

I don't think it is me with the attitude . . . You (plural) just have not been around Aviation long enough to see that clouds do not actually have silver linings, but can disguise severe turbulence -in life. Your time will come. You just don't know it, yet.

When every Australian who wants to work and has a job, in his chosen career path, OK, look overseas to filling jobs that cannot be filled.

Take care of our own, first . . .

[DJ]

CC, correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you an honorary Australian? In a way I agree with what you're saying but insulting us doesn't really endear us to your cause. There may be some that are afraid of being shown up, who likes being shown up? But to go as far as saying we are racist and discriminatory isn't on.

I have great respect for your aviation career, you have done a lot more than I, and have experience far greater. I believe you have a lot to pass on. But nobody is going to listen to it if you continue down this negative path you're on. Please don't let bitterness and negativity become your legacy. You owe yourself much more.

Kind Regards

DJ

[cassidy_copter]

honorary Australian

Everyone's genetic material arrived here from somewhere else, at some point in time.

And, that is the rub: the holier than thou [edit] out there consider me "honourary", not a real Australian, and think it is funny, to say, "Come on, lemme hear you say, Good day mate."

WRONG ANSWER.

I am an Australian citizen.

But to go as far as saying we are racist and discriminatory isn't on.

The Australian government had commissioned a study about discrimination/racism . . . The entity would not exist if it was not a real or perceived problem.
National Anti-Racism Strategy for Australia
antiracismsecretariat@humanrights.gov.au

There have been recent television ads about racism in Australian sports.

You are lying to yourself, if you truly believe there is no racism or discrimination, in Australia, and that attitude and belief is part of the problem. Denying something does not exist publicly or to yourself is not proof that racism and discrimination do not exist, in Australia.

What isn't on is racism and discrimination of any sort, but it exists, right here, in the lucky country.

There was a survey done of foreign students, they felt discriminated against for the way they looked, the way they talked, the way they were treated. Yet, universities around Australia depend on their money.

As far back as 2005, an acquaintance at Qantas, with the right internal contacts, passed on my application and CV, with a personal recommendation. His contact told him, in response, "Ah, he's too old." I was 50!

who likes being shown up?

If a pretend-to-be professional Chief Pilot, Instructor, or Line Pilot is not truly very experienced and has a fragile ego, then he would not like to be shown up, would feel easily threatened and insecure in his position next to an older pilot with more experience.

[tinman]

Back to the subject.

Sebbo, don't listen to people like cassidy, when he first came to Australia he was a foreigner too. Now he's complaining about foreigners looking for an opportunity?
Now THAT is beyond me… Have you not worked all over the planet yourself, cassidy? So why attack someone looking for work just like you did in the past?

What you're really saying is that people with twin endorsements, and lots of hours and ATPLs and IR and a fixed wing license are most welcome, but a guy with 'only' R22 and R44 hours is not?
I just don't get your logic. I've actually met you in person, cassidy, and I must say I thought highly of you, but maybe my people skills aren't as good as I'd like to think.

For the record, I do hold a JAR license myself, and let me tell you, the market in Europe is as dry as a pommy's bath towel. Yes, the authorities over there make it hard for foreign pilots to obtain
a license, but that's not the pilots fault now is it? For someone with lowish hours it's almost impossible to find work unless they know the owner of a company or get lucky.

All pilots, IMHO should stick together regardless of nationality, or race, the industry is small enough.

So stop being so negative about it all and give the bloke a chance, I say good on ya Sebbo for trying it in Oz, it's a helluva place with lots of nice people, and with determination and stamina you'll find a job I'm sure.

tin

[sebbo]

Thanks for the various responses. Even when some posts deviated a little bit from the subject, but I guess I should have expected that .

[rotornuts]

Hey Sebbo,
Mate don't give a second thought to some grumpy worn out geriatric fart who is so quick to tell you he has flown everything ever made!!! Maybe that's why he has had to because of a s#!t old attitude like that and no one puts up with him for long ha ha ha.
Go really hard and I hope you take his job off him and others like him who are so negative about everything and have to try shove their opinionated negative sadness down everyone else's throats. It shows with the number of negative posts that they must be lonely w*nkers with nothing better to do than to try to bring people down..
I have worked overseas and I am really thankful for the opportunity I got!! Plus I apologise on behalf of the 99 percent of normal Aussies here and hope you get a chance!
Good luck

[FerrariFlyer]

Racist, discrimination, ageist issues aside, I stand to be corrected by Cassidy however I think the crux of his discussion points relating to working abroad vs working locally vs protecting jobs is more a case of protecting local labour markets during difficult times while being open to foreign labour as and when it's required.

I worked abroad for a year and got a lot of out it, despite hearing mutterings from many '105hr in-country CPL holders' suggesting that, as a low timer myself, I was taking their work from them. The operators who recruited pilots at the time needed people with around 4-500hrs of charter or air work under their belts as a minimum and with the amount of work on they needed foreign guys to help with the work load. However, when things got lean most of the foreign workers lost out and returned to their country of domicile.

In the end It's a basic supply and demand argument...when operators can fill vacancies locally they will and if they cannot they will look overseas for the labour.

[canuck]

this is a very controversial topic no matter what part of the world your in or forum.

So heres my question, I'm a canadian pilot, multi-thousands of hrs.. endorsements (r44,500,206,squirrel,bell mediums)blah blah blah... bag full of longline/precision work... so how do i come over there and get a decent job? any suggestion would be great