ASL EXAMS

A place to have your say and ask your questions on anything in the Helicopter learning environment.
TomJ
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ASL EXAMS

Postby TomJ » Thu Sep 26 2013, 07:08

Fun times... Went to sit Human Factors today. Asked if I had my logbook and BAK evidence of pass on me... Said i was CPL(H), not required.
Was told rules have changed. As of 2 days ago when they moved onto PEXO system. I said WTF?
She said she call Canberra.
I said "Good"
She spoke with someone somewhere and said her hand were dirty from the printer and she was busy, and said "here, you talk to this person"
I said. OK
He said you need a BAK or a PPL(A) or a letter in lieu of either of them and that I would have to pay for a rebooking.
I said "WTF!!!" He said "that's correct". Can't be sure what transpired next next - a lot of white noise and what seemed like a 3.5G grey out, due to a Systematic Threat turned into an Error leading to a pronounced Undesired Aircraft State from which I am still dealing with.

Have emailed them a nice letter to ask WTF is going on as no info of CPL H to have BAK or PPL or Letter in Lieu of are on ASL or CASA website and sure as there's Sh*t in a cat, it ain't on my booking confirmation print out.
QMB
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby QMB » Thu Sep 26 2013, 07:45

Tom,

We had to get exemptions this week for the same thing as I don't think anywhere is set to do BAK for CPL(H) could be wrong. Just another ripper from CASA. Anyhow good luck.
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CYHeli
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby CYHeli » Thu Sep 26 2013, 10:43

Under the changes in December, all CPL candidates will need a pass in BAK or the PPL exams. We are now treated the same as the fixed wing.
I was told recently that CPL(H) students have always needed proof of a BAK pass in their logbooks for the theory exams, but it was never enforced and has dropped by the wayside over time.
The BAK is administered by the flight schools and is normally free.

I'll look for a reference and get in on here ASAP.
What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others.
TomJ
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby TomJ » Thu Sep 26 2013, 13:06

QMB and CY,
Thanks for the input.
Will have a chat with ASL and CASA tomorrow.
Hopefully relieve some of the 'sting in the ring' and sort this out.
Would have been good to of had a heads up before fronting for the exam.
Had previously taken log book into exams for their perusal etc and told not required...
Not that I have a BAK sign off in it anyway.

Great system all round, previous 2 times in for an exam and the computer system was down. First one had to pull the pin, the second sat there for an hour before back on line.
Anyway.
Whinge done. Violins back in their cases.

Cheers.
Banjo-Kazooie
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby Banjo-Kazooie » Fri Sep 27 2013, 02:04

TomJ wrote:
Great system all round, previous 2 times in for an exam and the computer system was down. First one had to pull the pin, the second sat there for an hour before back on line.


Hooray for monopolies! :roll:
TomJ
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby TomJ » Fri Sep 27 2013, 02:41

FROM ASL WEBSITE - TODAY!!

BAK Requirement

It is a CASA requirement for candidates sitting all PPL (Aeroplane) or CPL (Aeroplane) examinations to produce evidence of their BAK. If you are sitting a PPL(A) or CPL(A) examination you will be required to produce an original of your personal logbook including evidence of having passed your BAK (Basic Aircraft Knowledge). Candidate's who fail to produce this document will be denied access to the exam and will forfeit their examination fees. Note that a photocopy of the page, or any other form other than the original logbook, will not be accepted.

Exemptions

There are exceptions to having to present a BAK some of which are shown below.

If you are sitting a helicopter examination you are not required to produce a BAK
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Gator
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby Gator » Fri Sep 27 2013, 04:01

Here's an actual screenshot from the ASL website which shows the heli exemption.
BAK2.jpg
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CYHeli
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby CYHeli » Fri Sep 27 2013, 04:20

Nice work gents.
I had sent an email to CASA, but no response yet, although the answer appears obvious.
As stated above, under the new Part 61 syllabus (in the MOS actually) it states the BAK is a prerequiste for the PPL(H) & CPL(H) exams.
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby ChicoCheco » Fri Sep 27 2013, 04:41

does that affect people needing 'only' air law and CHUF exams converting their foreign CPL(H)?
Souns pretty silly to me, requiring some endorsement in logbook that must have been accomplished/obtained in past for rated pilots. That screenshot does not have CPL(H) in there. So ASL applies same 'rule' to helicopter guys?
TomJ
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby TomJ » Fri Sep 27 2013, 05:01

Ok then...
CASA and ASL.
pop;
From Sept 24th: BAK (H) or PPL (H) or Letter of Exemption required from CASA Flight Crew Licensing for Helicopter theory exams.

Letter is for the interim, up until Dec 3rd, with Dec 4th, day 1 of Part 61 licensing change, a BAK (H) will be required.

In the process of getting now.

Informed by ASL that they are in the process of updating the web site with additional info.
Any booking made prior to 24th Sept will not have this info on Confirmation letter.

ASL and CASA apologies all round.
and
...
any calls from supervisors about helicopter pilots showing up for exams without a BAK were to be referred to CASA before being turned away from exams
...

and then...
Someone else sat my exam and passed, (supervisor at exam centre switched me to a different seat when I got there because the computer was playing up,
then put another student in my orig seat, not changing the log in details).

they need to rid my account of that before rebooking...
next available date is 2 weeks away. coincidentally the day before another exam booking, can't keep shifting this sh•t around

:shock: half a day of sorting out other people's fck ups...

and i thought learning to fly would be difficult... tee hee hee
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Gator
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby Gator » Fri Sep 27 2013, 06:32

TomJ wrote:and then...
Someone else sat my exam and passed, (supervisor at exam centre switched me to a different seat when I got there because the computer was playing up,
then put another student in my orig seat, not changing the log in details).


Just out of interest.... who got the higher mark? You or the other guy?
TomJ
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby TomJ » Fri Sep 27 2013, 07:28

Ha.
That's my first qstn to the CASA guy...
Me:"How'd he go?"
CASA: "81% percent"
Me: "pfffft... p155 weak... but i'll take it"

(p.s wasn't allowed to sit the exam)

you'll hear from me again if I top 81 for it when/if I get to sit it again..
Twoheads
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby Twoheads » Fri Sep 27 2013, 08:08

We shall see how long CASA takes to send these Letters out when requested.

Odd's on a week? Month. pop;
TomJ
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby TomJ » Fri Sep 27 2013, 15:13

You have to request the letter of exemption.
won't be sent automatically.
Contact: fcl.exams@casa.gov.au
And request a Letter of Exemption, for BAK (H), prior to 4th Dec, stating your full name and ARN with the request.
received mine within 20 minutes from them this arvo.
Public Holiday This Monday in Canberra though...
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby DADFA » Sat Sep 28 2013, 00:47

You have to wonder about the amount of thought that went into the decision to change the required BAK(H) (with no notification) and how many will front with out the necessary letter and be denied the chance to sit the exam just because the change has not been widely notified.
Is this enough time for schools to develop a BAK course and exam and implement it before 4 Dec and what is required in the syllabus for BAK(H) and has one even been written yet?
What will happen to students doing their last exam after 4 Dec, will they be required to sit BAK(H) just to do one exam?

So many questions, so few answers. I'm sure I will think of a few more in the next day or so.
ChicoCheco
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby ChicoCheco » Sat Sep 28 2013, 03:23

shucks, better get my air law and human factonrs exams done ASAP. bit tough from US or UK, ehrm. Good news is, that by the time I'm in Aus again, the booking would be OK (hopefully).
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CYHeli
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby CYHeli » Sat Sep 28 2013, 07:37

The content of the BAK(H) is listed in the MOS under schedule 2 & 3. Most schools will already have a BAK written because they have always been able to conduct a GFPT flight test. The BAK has always been a prerequisite for the GFPT. I realise that the GFPT is rare, but does happen.
The knowledge requirement for the BAK Is quite high, for example, what is the COANDA Effect?
What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others.
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widewindsidewinder
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby widewindsidewinder » Sat Sep 28 2013, 09:13

CYHeli wrote:The content of the BAK(H) is listed in the MOS under schedule 2 & 3. Most schools will already have a BAK written because they have always been able to conduct a GFPT flight test. The BAK has always been a prerequisite for the GFPT. I realise that the GFPT is rare, but does happen.
The knowledge requirement for the BAK Is quite high, for example, what is the COANDA Effect?


CY mate, have you got a link to the MOS Schedule 2/3, or a link to the content of the BAK(H)?
That would be most appreciated!

And the Coanda effect is where you've had a few too many beers and you try to spell "Canada" 8)
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CYHeli
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby CYHeli » Sat Sep 28 2013, 09:40

Link, http://casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PARTS061
Link to Schedule 3 on the sidebar.
There are common items (ie. both airplane & helicopter) that start on page 5.
Helicopter specific starts on page 16.
Coanda ref on page 41, Aerodynamics for CPL that are common. Over-Simply put think how a NOTAR creates lift sideways.
Like the common knowledge of turbos, it should not be in the syllabus but learnt as part of an endorsement.

The other schedule was Sch 1, not 2. My bad.
Check out page 7.
The BAK will be a prerequisite for both airplane and helicopters (all categories is the term used!).
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Re: ASL EXAMS

Postby Heliduck » Sat Sep 28 2013, 10:10

Sounds like a real cluster...

Let's see how long it takes for the new federal government to can the planned changes for December 4 & throw another spanner in the works!!
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