Flights schools post training
- Anti-Talk
- Silver Wings
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Oct 2006
Flights schools post training
G’day
Long time reader first time poster.
I am interested to hear from “the slappers” about your experiences post your flight training. Has your training school looked after you and helped you find employment once you have finished paying them for their services??
I am looking to start completing / converting my licence soon and I am doing research into flight schools in the QLD area but would like to hear about any stories good and bad about training schools around Australia.
Regards
PS – Great site with excellent information.
Long time reader first time poster.
I am interested to hear from “the slappers” about your experiences post your flight training. Has your training school looked after you and helped you find employment once you have finished paying them for their services??
I am looking to start completing / converting my licence soon and I am doing research into flight schools in the QLD area but would like to hear about any stories good and bad about training schools around Australia.
Regards
PS – Great site with excellent information.
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- 2nd Dan
- Posts: 334
- Joined: Sep 2006
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- Gold Wings
- Posts: 128
- Joined: Jun 2006
Rember what you said, you are paying them for their services.
It is up tp you to find a job once you have finished your training. Most schools will give you plenty of good advice and steer you in the right direction, but it is not their job to find you a job, they are there to teach you how to fly.
My advice is make the most of your training, leave a good impression with the instructors you are learning with and if they do hear of something they will let you know.
Once you have finished your training, the best thing to do is what everyone says to do. Jump in a car and go look for yourself, meet lots of people and then maybe hang around a place you like and that might give you a start. Its a long road when you start, but if you are keen and motivated you will be right.
It is up tp you to find a job once you have finished your training. Most schools will give you plenty of good advice and steer you in the right direction, but it is not their job to find you a job, they are there to teach you how to fly.
My advice is make the most of your training, leave a good impression with the instructors you are learning with and if they do hear of something they will let you know.
Once you have finished your training, the best thing to do is what everyone says to do. Jump in a car and go look for yourself, meet lots of people and then maybe hang around a place you like and that might give you a start. Its a long road when you start, but if you are keen and motivated you will be right.
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- New Member
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Dec 2006
- FerrariFlyer
- 4th Dan
- Posts: 1543
- Joined: Aug 2006
PHS have good training, but can tend to wash their hands of you once you finish with them. The carrot at Ayers Rock is a big drawer card for most new CPL students, and they promote the place as though its the one and only place to be...train anywhere else, and you are stuffed for a job!!! or so the feeling goes. Its not as great as it sounds and the 'operators' say its better then it is, going from what many say who have been through there as slave labourers. Many operators offer post-employment flying 'experience' and employment...look around, ask questions and go from there. Don't simply believe what a couple people say - find out for yourself.
Having chatted with many graduates from varying backgrounds and many different schools, most all offer good training and varying levels of support post your training. Importantly, from a career perspective, network network network. If you rely on your school too much, its like relying on your uni to go and get a job for you. Do not be spoon-fed, get out there amongst it and go look for work. Take onboard what your instructors say and do what you have to for a start. Its a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll, so grab your climbing gear and get started.
Having chatted with many graduates from varying backgrounds and many different schools, most all offer good training and varying levels of support post your training. Importantly, from a career perspective, network network network. If you rely on your school too much, its like relying on your uni to go and get a job for you. Do not be spoon-fed, get out there amongst it and go look for work. Take onboard what your instructors say and do what you have to for a start. Its a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll, so grab your climbing gear and get started.
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- Silver Wings
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Dec 2006
Jobs and training
Chopperline was great and really helped in the years after completing my CPL. Sad that Ken Amess left he was a real draw card.
Hit the road once you are finished and turn up to the operator's looking respectable.
Make sure you have an R44 endorsment.
Hit the road once you are finished and turn up to the operator's looking respectable.
Make sure you have an R44 endorsment.
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- 2nd Dan
- Posts: 386
- Joined: Dec 2005
I Trained at Chopperline and they have helped me lots during the few years I've had my License.
It's up to the individual though, we pay the provider for our flight training and that is what they provide.
They give you good contacts and it's up to you to jump in your car and go visit them. That is the only way to get a job in my opinion, you've got to be there.
Cheers
Ray
Ps. I second the R44 Endorsement, most popular tourism machine around for new pilots to fly.
It's up to the individual though, we pay the provider for our flight training and that is what they provide.
They give you good contacts and it's up to you to jump in your car and go visit them. That is the only way to get a job in my opinion, you've got to be there.
Cheers
Ray
Ps. I second the R44 Endorsement, most popular tourism machine around for new pilots to fly.
- Anti-Talk
- Silver Wings
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Oct 2006
Thank you for the good information guys.
I realise that I will be paying an operator for a service of providing flight training, however, it would be good to know if any operators went beyond just providing flight training and actively helped past student gain employment. I think an operator would be able to promote their school better if past students were able to get a position in the industry and sell on the training school to others who are contemplating gaining a licence.
Another question,
I have heard stories from a few pilots who I have met that at one stage they worked on the ground for a company before making it onto the flying scene……..which is great, but is it a guaranteed progression?? Are there many people out there who are still working on the ground waiting for that opportunity to arrive? How long have you been waiting?? How long do you wait before you think you are been used???
Regards
Anti-talk
PS I realise it was more than just “another question”, sorry!!
PPS appreciate the tip on the R44 endorsement that will be a certainty once I have finished.
I realise that I will be paying an operator for a service of providing flight training, however, it would be good to know if any operators went beyond just providing flight training and actively helped past student gain employment. I think an operator would be able to promote their school better if past students were able to get a position in the industry and sell on the training school to others who are contemplating gaining a licence.
Another question,
I have heard stories from a few pilots who I have met that at one stage they worked on the ground for a company before making it onto the flying scene……..which is great, but is it a guaranteed progression?? Are there many people out there who are still working on the ground waiting for that opportunity to arrive? How long have you been waiting?? How long do you wait before you think you are been used???
Regards
Anti-talk
PS I realise it was more than just “another question”, sorry!!
PPS appreciate the tip on the R44 endorsement that will be a certainty once I have finished.
- CYHeli
- 4th Dan
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Jun 2006
Think R44 carefully
The R44 endorsement on it's own is of marginal use.
I was told by a Chief Pilot once that any endorsement on it's own means that you have to be re-trained to fly his way. Could mean a long check flight that costs his company money.
My tip (from this CP) was to do the endorsement during your training and try to get at least 20 hours in it. Remember that you have to have at least 3 - 5 hours command time depending on your experience to fly charter.
If you have the money to do the basic endorsement only, take the money with you and see if the new CP that you are applying to for work can do the endorsement at a better rate than your school. That way you save some money and get taught his way.
It's just an idea. If your school is doing joy flights and that sort of thing, get the endorsement early and get the ferry flight to/from the joy flights. That gets your PIC hours up.
One operator that I fly for has an insurance requirement of 20 hours on type. If you only had a barebones endorsement you would never get to fly this machine.
Happy flying, Col
I was told by a Chief Pilot once that any endorsement on it's own means that you have to be re-trained to fly his way. Could mean a long check flight that costs his company money.
My tip (from this CP) was to do the endorsement during your training and try to get at least 20 hours in it. Remember that you have to have at least 3 - 5 hours command time depending on your experience to fly charter.
If you have the money to do the basic endorsement only, take the money with you and see if the new CP that you are applying to for work can do the endorsement at a better rate than your school. That way you save some money and get taught his way.
It's just an idea. If your school is doing joy flights and that sort of thing, get the endorsement early and get the ferry flight to/from the joy flights. That gets your PIC hours up.
One operator that I fly for has an insurance requirement of 20 hours on type. If you only had a barebones endorsement you would never get to fly this machine.
Happy flying, Col
- skypig
- 4th Dan
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: Nov 2005
Anti-Talk
Quote
“I have heard stories from a few pilots who I have met that at one stage they worked on the ground for a company before making it onto the flying scene……..which is great, but is it a guaranteed progression?? Are there many people out there who are still working on the ground waiting for that opportunity to arrive? How long have you been waiting?? How long do you wait before you think you are been used???”
1 You heard the stories from pilots – think about that fact (for the cheap seats, persons who had “made it” over the biggest hurdle, the first job).
2 “Are there many people out there who are still working on the ground waiting for that opportunity to arrive?” Of course there are.
3 Guaranteed progression?? I can guarantee that you’ll be watched closely and if your attitude is suspect (wanting guarantees for example) you’ll never progress and be lucky to get a second chance with another operator.
4 You are being used, and using , from day one. It takes as long as it takes. If you put a limit on yourself you make it harder to succeed.
5 I don’t agree with all this but it is the way it is.
6 There is a very bright light at the end of the tunnel for those willing to do “what it takes”
CYHeli
Some very valid points raised, but to add my 2c worth:-
Only two types can be used during training if you want to qualify for the short course usually quoted, ie 70/105hrs. 20hrs in an R44 would be good but at a significant cost.
If you have to be “retrained to fly his way” after a bare endorsement wouldn’t it be worse after 20hrs?
Many CPs don’t have the rating to do endorsement training.
Often insurance companies increase the excess till a certain level of experience is reached. Even with several thousand hrs my excess was increased (doubled) until 100hrs on type. No crash – no penalty.
R44 endorsements seem to help a fair few students with early employment.
skypig
Quote
“I have heard stories from a few pilots who I have met that at one stage they worked on the ground for a company before making it onto the flying scene……..which is great, but is it a guaranteed progression?? Are there many people out there who are still working on the ground waiting for that opportunity to arrive? How long have you been waiting?? How long do you wait before you think you are been used???”
1 You heard the stories from pilots – think about that fact (for the cheap seats, persons who had “made it” over the biggest hurdle, the first job).
2 “Are there many people out there who are still working on the ground waiting for that opportunity to arrive?” Of course there are.
3 Guaranteed progression?? I can guarantee that you’ll be watched closely and if your attitude is suspect (wanting guarantees for example) you’ll never progress and be lucky to get a second chance with another operator.
4 You are being used, and using , from day one. It takes as long as it takes. If you put a limit on yourself you make it harder to succeed.
5 I don’t agree with all this but it is the way it is.
6 There is a very bright light at the end of the tunnel for those willing to do “what it takes”
CYHeli
Some very valid points raised, but to add my 2c worth:-
Only two types can be used during training if you want to qualify for the short course usually quoted, ie 70/105hrs. 20hrs in an R44 would be good but at a significant cost.
If you have to be “retrained to fly his way” after a bare endorsement wouldn’t it be worse after 20hrs?
Many CPs don’t have the rating to do endorsement training.
Often insurance companies increase the excess till a certain level of experience is reached. Even with several thousand hrs my excess was increased (doubled) until 100hrs on type. No crash – no penalty.
R44 endorsements seem to help a fair few students with early employment.
skypig
- Anti-Talk
- Silver Wings
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Oct 2006
6 There is a very bright light at the end of the tunnel for those willing to do “what it takes”
I was once told just that the bright light at the end of the tunnel was (for some people) the train steaming down the track to splatter you to a pulp!!!!
I hope for me the light at the end of the tunnel is the exit!!!
Thanks for your views.
I was once told just that the bright light at the end of the tunnel was (for some people) the train steaming down the track to splatter you to a pulp!!!!
I hope for me the light at the end of the tunnel is the exit!!!
Thanks for your views.
- skypig
- 4th Dan
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: Nov 2005
I’ve swept floors, fetched lunches, answered phones, relocated interstate/internationally, worked for bad people, worked for low wages, etc. I’m now riding the light at the end of the tunnel and for me it turned out to be a great job where my helicopter flying skills are very much appreciated and I’m paid well for doing something I enjoy.
Keep the faith (the faith in yourself and the possibilities available)
$kypig
Keep the faith (the faith in yourself and the possibilities available)
$kypig
- Train Crash
- Gold Wings
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Apr 2006
- Low Time
- Gold Wings
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Mar 2006
Sheer hard work, persistance and an unshakeable belief in wanting to become a Pilot. As others have said, ring and visit operators, sweep the hanger floor, mow the grass or dust as the case is at the moment. Answer phones, build shelves. All these things will get you noticed and rewarded with a job. It may be casual for a start but hours in the book are what count. My boss looks for all of the above when he speaks to new potental pilots. As he says, anyone can do the Fun part, the ability to do other things that assist the company is what he looks for.
- squirrel350
- Silver Wings
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Sep 2006
- Desertflyer
- 1st Dan
- Posts: 214
- Joined: Jul 2006
I am fortunate enough to be able to get ground crew experience whilst I am training (just went solo in Dec! woo hoo!...)
I have offered help when I can making repairs, sweeping the hangar etc on the weekends just to get to be around the chopper.
But I do this not just to be noticed/network and get on the radar for a potential job but also because I enjoy the work! It's experience that I am grateful for. I don't expect anything in return apart from the valuable experience I am getting.
If you enjoy flying I don't see why you wouldn't enjoy the other aspects that come with it. Everything you do in or around a chopper or hangar you can learn from. That includes mudane jobs like washing the chopper and fixing a door. Things happen when you are in that environment that you can learn from and file away for later.
As for gaurantees, I am not doing it because I think I will be gauranteed a job with the company I am doing it for. I am doing it because it will make my resume look better for any potential first job - not just with my flight school.
I know for some hanging around a hangar making coffee will not pay the bills but I know of a lot of pilots who have second jobs in the evenings. I guess it's a personal call if you feel you are being used after a time.
With regards to R-44 time. I have been advised to pay for 20 hours in the R-44 near the end of my training. It's more money initially, but it gets you an endorsement that you would have to pay for later anyway and you would only have the minimum hours for that type.
The light is still on at the end of the tunnel. I am realistic enough to realise it is a bloody long tunnel but I guess it all depends on how badly you want that apple...
Safe flying in the new year...
DF
I have offered help when I can making repairs, sweeping the hangar etc on the weekends just to get to be around the chopper.
But I do this not just to be noticed/network and get on the radar for a potential job but also because I enjoy the work! It's experience that I am grateful for. I don't expect anything in return apart from the valuable experience I am getting.
If you enjoy flying I don't see why you wouldn't enjoy the other aspects that come with it. Everything you do in or around a chopper or hangar you can learn from. That includes mudane jobs like washing the chopper and fixing a door. Things happen when you are in that environment that you can learn from and file away for later.
As for gaurantees, I am not doing it because I think I will be gauranteed a job with the company I am doing it for. I am doing it because it will make my resume look better for any potential first job - not just with my flight school.
I know for some hanging around a hangar making coffee will not pay the bills but I know of a lot of pilots who have second jobs in the evenings. I guess it's a personal call if you feel you are being used after a time.
With regards to R-44 time. I have been advised to pay for 20 hours in the R-44 near the end of my training. It's more money initially, but it gets you an endorsement that you would have to pay for later anyway and you would only have the minimum hours for that type.
The light is still on at the end of the tunnel. I am realistic enough to realise it is a bloody long tunnel but I guess it all depends on how badly you want that apple...
Safe flying in the new year...
DF
Basic Flying Rules: "Try to stay in the middle of the air. Do not go near the edges of it. The edges of the air can be recognized by the appearance of ground, buildings, sea, trees and interstellar space. It is much more difficult to fly there."
- skypig
- 4th Dan
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: Nov 2005
- Desertflyer
- 1st Dan
- Posts: 214
- Joined: Jul 2006
Thankyou Skypig.
Was quite the buzz to look left and not see anyone occupying the seat next to me.
No one to point out my airspeed too high or altitude too low. All went smoothly tho.
First of many hurdles but just a taste of things to come.
Now, where did I put those navigation books...
Was quite the buzz to look left and not see anyone occupying the seat next to me.
No one to point out my airspeed too high or altitude too low. All went smoothly tho.
First of many hurdles but just a taste of things to come.
Now, where did I put those navigation books...
Basic Flying Rules: "Try to stay in the middle of the air. Do not go near the edges of it. The edges of the air can be recognized by the appearance of ground, buildings, sea, trees and interstellar space. It is much more difficult to fly there."
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