Training in other countries?

[flyingshamrock]

Does anyone have a POH for R44 Raven I in PDF? I have a POH for the Raven II and didnt know if they are different. I am Florida USA building R44 time. My friend in Orlando told me a new school thats offering R44 training and time building for $299 US, Block time. That's about $200 less than what I am paying for now. I didn't believe him so he told me to go to http://www.kissimmeehelicopters.com. It's true so I am going to call them today and would be greatful to have the POH on my computer if I can?

P.S. I will report back and tell you what I see. Later!

[Daze]

Hello there, new wannabe from Australia, interested in the helicopter career.

In browsing some forums, an interesting possibility was raised.

Australia is a someone convulted path for obtaining a professional qualification, and competition is (perhaps) overly fierce, or limited, once obtaining the bare minimum training level. It's also expensive, relative to other countries. It was suggested to me that training in another country might be a better option. Maybe some of the more remote schools that would be more likely to take you on as an instructor afterwards, aptitude pending.

So my question is, are certain countries qualifications more "desireable"? Is there a global "standard" that allows for easy transitions between the various country codes/licences?

Does anyone have recommendations along these lines for good countries to get a start in?

Etc. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Regards, Liq.

[Ray McCooney]

Have a look at the Bristow Academy. http://www.heli.com . They seem to be very well respected and you can instruct after your licence is complete.

I just had a look at their webpage and noticed that Bristow Australia hired three Swedish graduates from this school in 2006/07. Obviously not enough unemployed Australian pilots around! Anyone know the story behind that?

Ray

[Daze]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but bristow tend to take only the cream? My track record since leaving high school 7 years ago has been very succesful, but it's all been private enterprise.
I dont have pieces of paper to suggest i'm a go-getter, is the point. Only results, not really verifiable, unless i'm willing to release financial data, which I'm not.

[Queestce]

I was just about the post this exact same thread! With the dollar getting closer and closer to parity with the USD training over in the US or elsewhere is becoming more and more attractive. I have been doing a bit of research and so many different sources say its easier to get a start as a low hour pilot over in the states. But is that really the case? All this talk of walking out of training into instructing really does confuse me, as i would have always thought experience would be a crucial step between those two others. I've had a good look at bristows site and i assume they are "the best" training operator in the states? Even without Ausstudy/Rent Assist you can get while training here in Aus it does seem to be a great deal cheaper for a great deal more training (I'm talking FAA Professional Program). But after the year, or two year visa is up and your heading back to Aussieland how difficult is it to exchange the license back to an Aus cpl from an FAA/JAA? I figure as the other require more hours initially it should be pretty straightforward? And hopefully if all has gone to plan you will have plenty of hours from that first job anyway. I'm just quite uncertain as to how easy it is to find low hour work in places such as the states, from what i've read compared to Aust it seems people deem it to be ALOT easier. Walk out of training into a job sort of thing, but if it all went pear shaped I guess you can always cut your losses and try again here in Aus anyway. I have no adversion to training over in the states or elsewhere if it is truly the fastest track to high hours, good gigs, and solid experience. I thought I once read that there were specific programs set up over there that were tailored for intl students to give them a license then an assured job instructing for a year or two? Is this the case / Is anyone able to show me where i might find more info on these courses? Sorry if i have hijacked the thread, just figured I shouldn't post up a second one with more or less the same topic or someone will get at me haha! Cheers guys,

Tom

[Yankee]

Hi Queestce...

The answer to most of your queries is... No. Yes, training is cheaper in the US with the dollar parity, but thats where it mostly stops. Things are a soup sandwich over here, and people with turbine time and 1500 hours can't find work. Yes, its that bad in the US at the moment... and no, there is not a single flight school over here in the US that will "Guarantee" a pilot with an brand new CFI work at the school they trained at. Yes, most schools will say that they will try to accommodate, but try finding one that will put a contract in writing. I doubt there is a school anywhere in the world that will do that.

Just my opinion but I reckon things are going to do a 180 in about two years from now. In late 2005 daily contract pilots were making outrageous amounts of money. There was a major shortage of 1200 - 2000 hour pilots. Silver State plugged that hole and in my opinion has caused the mess we're on now.

If you could move to the US and train and could get a work visa here (and assuming you wanted to live here) then yes I would say its a great idea... however, the hassle and expense of moving etc and moving back to OZ and converting your license is really not worth it, not to mention the fact that you have absolutely no network built up and all things equal you would probably find your locally trained competition would get an entry level job before you.

If you can afford it the best possible way to train is probably to purchase your own helicopter and lease it back to a school while you train there. and then you probably will be guaranteed an instructor position at the school...

On the other hand, you may want to rent/buy a microlite and fly that around after you get your comm, you're still logging flight time and probably having a blast doing it too.

In short, Stay home and knuckle it out I suppose, besides, why would anyone ever want to leave Oz???

[havick]

yankee... keep in mind that here in Australia, to become an instructor you need to have logged 400 hours helicopter before attempting your instructor rating test with CASA.

[Yakking]

There have been numerous threads on this topic before, search through the archives and you will find plenty of info.

I went to Bristow Academy in 2006 (when it was called Helicopter Adventures Inc.). It’s a great school and one of only two (the other being Hillsboro Aviation) who can issue a study-work visa.

Listen to Yankee, now would not be the ideal time to go try and find work in the States. I’ve just had an American pilot I trained with visit me for the last week and the stories he has of their industry are pretty dire at the moment. There’s very little job movement and everyone is holding onto what they’ve got.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but bristow tend to take only the cream?

Let me correct you; they will take anyone with half a brain and who can prove that they have the funds to finish the training (there is no guarantee that you’ll finish though you need the aptitude and the gumption to finish).

I just had a look at their webpage and noticed that Bristow Australia hired three Swedish graduates from this school in 2006/07. Obviously not enough unemployed Australian pilots around! Anyone know the story behind that?

Ray, they actually hired 2 Swedes, 1 Danish, 1 Kiwi and an Irish bloke straight from the Academy. They are all very switched on pilots and Bristow Australia was short of co-jo’s. Why wouldn’t they hire switched on operators recommended by the Academy. After 1-2years in Australia they were retrenched. All have since returned to Europe to convert their licenses (though I’m not 100% about the Kiwi).

Converting FAA to CASA was simple enough. ARN, Medical, Air Law, flight test, jumping through some of CASA’s beaucratic (sp?) hoops and parting with some cash. It took me about 6wks (with hindsight I could of done it faster) and roughly $4000 (aircraft hire included).

In summary if you get a JAA, FAA CASA or CAA license they are all held in fairly high regard. If you get a lucky run when in the States it can set you up for the rest or your career. But there are also a lot of horror stories coming out of there at the moment. Guys who have just got their licenses, then travel around the county for several months looking for work. Upon finding none they have been returning to their homelands with minimum hours and competing with the other low-hour pilots who trained locally and will therefore will probably get the look-in.

Before asking me specific questions look on the other threads, it’s all been covered before.

Yak.

[Daze]

Nobody is recommending going ANYWHERE at the moment for entry level work. Australia is no exception.
Keep in mind, after saving etc I wouldnt have a completed commercial licence for at LEAST 2 years, so the current "lull" may not be an issue.

The sob stories don't interest me.
Ultimately, at the end of the day there are ALWAYS going to be driven people that DO get through.
Sure, theres plenty of extremely talented people that by fate and chance, fail, but at least if you make an honest effort you can say you tried.
Think of any career, it's not "easy" to get into. Take retail, or sales.
It's either spend 5 years doing the hard yeards, or 3-4 years at UNI, followed by more years of the basic hard yards.
True, this game has a much higher "buy in" to get that first chance, but I've got the rest of my life to make it work.
If all else fails, I'll have to fall back to a get rich scheme and buy my own damn rig, come 40-50.

Things that appeal to me is that many of the USA courses seem to offer extras, such as a night rating, sling work, instrument ratings etc
during the regular training period, for a similair price.

So much food for thought ;D

[Jamie]

I have a friend who trained at Bristow and he described it as a 'pilot factory' which had up to 250 students at a time. He also said that the hours required (as quoted) to complete the course were exaggerated in his opinion. Apparently they hire approx 10% of the students but only if they have a long enough visa and mostly hired locals. He told me for approx 4 months this year they didn't hire any students from the FAA class. The other thing potential students need to take into consideration is the USA J-visa is about to change and will become only 1 year instead of 2. Be careful!

[Yakking]

Don't let me put you off Daze.
I did the USA route and don't regret it for a second. If you're planning on finishing your training for 2yrs then who knows what the industry will be doing then.

Things that appeal to me is that many of the USA courses seem to offer extras, such as a night rating, sling work, instrument ratings etc
during the regular training period, for a similair price.

There are no NVFR ratings in the US, it's just part of your basic training. Everyone does the instrument rating as part of their hour building to get to the CPL requirements. It'd definitely value for money. You've just got to make sure that you get some work over there before returning to Australia with enough hours to get you ahead of your competition.

I have a friend who trained at Bristow and he described it as a 'pilot factory' which had up to 250 students at a time. He also said that the hours required (as quoted) to complete the course were exaggerated in his opinion.

It is a pilot factory, but if the item they are producing is high class and their graduates are sought after, why wouldn’t you want to train there? I did my PPL and CPL with them in the minimums (an indication that the training is good).

Apparently they hire approx 10% of the students but only if they have a long enough visa and mostly hired locals. He told me for approx 4 months this year they didn't hire any students from the FAA class. The other thing potential students need to take into consideration is the USA J-visa is about to change and will become only 1 year instead of 2.

10% is probably about right, but they never guarantee anyone a job. No one is moving in the job market over there at the moment. And yeah definitely do your research on the new visa situation.

Good luck. Training in the States is a great option, it just might not be the right timing.

[Jabberwocky]

Good luck. Training in the States is a great option, it just might not be the right timing.

This bit seems to sum it up well. I went through all the processes, was even enrolled and all booked to go until things changed for me not to be able to anymore. And now, how thankful I am cause things certainly changed over there in the mean time (dollar, SS). It may come good again, it was certainly the thing to do upto a few years ago.
There's nothing wrong with supporting the Industry here either Liq.

[MicN7]

Give Simon at Wanaka Helicopters (in NZ) a ring - he's got a good handle on the situation in the US.