cplh law question

A place to have your say and ask your questions on anything in the Helicopter learning environment.
Gasket18
Silver Wings
Silver Wings
Posts: 32
Joined: Aug 2019

cplh law question

Postby Gasket18 » Wed Sep 9 2020, 09:10

Hi folks Been doign my law study lately. on a prac exam I cam across a dangerous goods question. For the life of me I can't find the answer anywhere. Anybody know where I'd find it?
Thanks
Cosmetics containers which use a flammable aerosol as the propellant would be classified as -
1 non-dangerous goods
2 non-radioactive medicinal or toilet article
3 gaseous air cylinder
4 dangerous goods, Class 2
A pure guess would be #4.
Wannabe60Driver
Silver Wings
Silver Wings
Posts: 71
Joined: May 2020

Re: cplh law question

Postby Wannabe60Driver » Wed Sep 9 2020, 11:48

Don’t bother with Law using separate CARs, CAOs, etc. Bob Tait has an extract on his website I used at CPL and ATPL Level and passed first time. On CPLH Law there are maybe three or four different points with what a helo can legally do compared to an aeroplane you need to worry about. Find the relevant docs on the Aust legislation websites and add them in. You’ll be fine.

The law exams aren’t an exercise in knowing anything. They’re an exercise in whether or not you know where to find the answer in a hurry.
User avatar
Twistgrip
4th Dan
4th Dan
Posts: 1127
Joined: Sep 2006

Re: cplh law question

Postby Twistgrip » Wed Sep 9 2020, 13:21

Hi Gasket,
Look under “toiletries“, which includes perfumes, aerosols, colognes.

There are some good apps such as “DG can I pack that “
It’s a CASA DG app and actually very useful.

But yes class 2.
Don’t take my word though, it’s been a long time since I did my exams on fax paper.
Good luck with your exams :)
"You can watch things happen, you can make things happen or you can wonder what happened"
User avatar
FerrariFlyer
4th Dan
4th Dan
Posts: 1510
Joined: Aug 2006

Re: cplh law question

Postby FerrariFlyer » Wed Sep 9 2020, 13:22

Given the 'make-up' and ladies perfume that Twisty often wears, he could be counted as a quasi expert in the field of cosmetics and what can be legally carried on a plane. Normally he would provide a prompt reply but Wednesday night is face mask night and it's not kosha to remove the cucumber slices too early, is it mate? 8)
User avatar
Rotorpilot
1st Dan
1st Dan
Posts: 208
Joined: Mar 2011

Re: cplh law question

Postby Rotorpilot » Wed Sep 9 2020, 13:41

pop; I like the reviews for the DG app. think they could be related to CASA in general.

not sure it would be useful in the exam though somehow...... :lol:
"Clear blades" :shock: 8)
User avatar
Capt Hollywood
3rd Dan
3rd Dan
Posts: 830
Joined: Sep 2006

Re: cplh law question

Postby Capt Hollywood » Wed Sep 9 2020, 23:28

Have a look at CASR 1998 > Volume 2 > Section 92.030 - Compliance with Technical Instructions—passengers and crew.

In particular, scroll down to Section 3 and then further to;

1.1 DANGEROUS GOODS CARRIED BY PASSENGERS OR CREW;

1.1.1 Except as otherwise provided in 1.1.2 below, dangerous goods must not be carried by passengers or crew members, either as or in carry-on baggage or checked baggage or on their person.

1.1.2 The provisions of these Instructions do not apply to the following when carried by passengers or crew members or in baggage, transported by the operator, that has been separated from its owner during transit (e.g. lost baggage or improperly routed baggage):

b) non-radioactive medicinal or toilet articles (including aerosols). Also aerosols in Division 2.2, with no subsidiary risk, for sporting or home use in checked baggage only. The total net quantity of all such articles carried by each person must not exceed 2 kg or 2 L and the net quantity of each single article must not exceed 0.5 kg or 0.5 L. The term “medicinal or toilet articles (including aerosols)” is intended to include such items as hair sprays, perfumes, colognes and medicines containing alcohols;
User avatar
Chang739
Silver Wings
Silver Wings
Posts: 39
Joined: Apr 2019

Re: cplh law question

Postby Chang739 » Thu Sep 10 2020, 04:09

I got this exact question, phrased almost exactly the same, in my CPL law exam. Just like you, I couldn't find reference to it and I don't think the section quoted above was in the Bob Tait extract, which is what I brought in. I just took a punt and it didn't come up in my KDR so I think 'Class 2' was correct :P
User avatar
Capt Hollywood
3rd Dan
3rd Dan
Posts: 830
Joined: Sep 2006

Re: cplh law question

Postby Capt Hollywood » Thu Sep 10 2020, 05:01

Hmmm, maybe this is one of those questions where there are two correct answers but you need to determine which is more right!

I believe "a cosmetics containers which use a flammable aerosol as the propellant" would indeed be classified as a Class 2, Divisions 2.1 Dangerous Good.

However, it also falls more specifically under the description in the CASRs, that I quoted above, which relates directly to Dangerous Goods in an aviation environment.

With that in mind, I'm leaning towards the No 2 as the answer.
ozloadie
Gold Wings
Gold Wings
Posts: 194
Joined: Oct 2010

Re: cplh law question

Postby ozloadie » Thu Sep 10 2020, 11:22

The Class 2 is a correct general description of the cosmetics container with a flammable product inside it, for a general question, however it is not a specific answer.

Cosmetic containers are common items manufactured commercially and may be assigned a brand named product related to that manufacturer once filled.
(the UN number of the container itself would be a package number, and would not be the same as the flammable gas product UN number.)

"UN" numbers are not allocated to that flammable product until it has been certified to meet the UN specifications of whatever commodity the manufacturer applies to be assessed for a UN number.

Any product, regardless of how close it mirrors the UN product, that is offered without a UN number assigned to its manufacturers description on the packaging, must be regarded as a NOS (Non Specific) product and assigned a relevant NOS code number.

If you were preparing the DG documents (waybills), the specific information you would require to provide is a UN number or a NOS (Non Specific) number to accurately describe the substance (these are both listed in the IATA DGR's and updated constantly).

Therefore, if your contained cosmetic has an assigned UN number on the manufacturers product information, then you use the UN number to identify it and the conditions that apply within the IATA DGR's for air passage.

If the product does not have a UN number assigned to it, you identify the ingredients in the container according to its label/s and apply a relevant NOS code number to the product. Even if it is branded, you indicate that brand name to enhance the DG product description on the documents to assist in its identification.

*The UN number or the NOS code number identifies the product, not the brand name.*
So the original question is very general and Class 2 is the only answer relevant to that.

Steve
Keep it flying, don't quit!
Gasket18
Silver Wings
Silver Wings
Posts: 32
Joined: Aug 2019

Re: cplh law question

Postby Gasket18 » Fri Sep 25 2020, 10:59

cheers for the replies folks. In regards to just using the Bob Tait. I already bought all my books etc when I decided to do law next. i have downloaded it now but not sure what ill take to exam.. Couldn't find anything around so I just bought the whole lot of what was on the allowed list in the exam. I only left casr part 61 in the folder as thats all I'm allowed to use in the exam. I've however been finding a lot of answer in CAAP's cant remember the numbers but HLS, fuel and another so Im guessing I have to memorise some things from them as they aren't allowed in the exam. Same with this flammable one as it's not in any of the documents allowed in the exam. just had my first exam question where I had to se erc low, prc and ersa to find a frequency to cancel sartime. looks like i better figure that one out next ..
Wannabe60Driver
Silver Wings
Silver Wings
Posts: 71
Joined: May 2020

Re: cplh law question

Postby Wannabe60Driver » Fri Sep 25 2020, 18:47

Just remember that the CLWH exam is written by a fixed-wing guy. You won’t have many helo -specific questions. I’m guessing around 70% of the questions will be something you’ve seen before and know where to find the answer. The other 30% are designed to suck your time. ERSA/AIP provides the preferred method to cancel SARTIME. They also provide guidance on other options. It’s a matter of thinking about how you’re going to reach the appropriate agency given the frequencies available where you are (VHF/HF) when there’s no way of phoning.
Gasket18
Silver Wings
Silver Wings
Posts: 32
Joined: Aug 2019

Re: cplh law question

Postby Gasket18 » Wed Sep 30 2020, 08:55

Wannabe60Driver wrote:Just remember that the CLWH exam is written by a fixed-wing guy. You won’t have many helo -specific questions. I’m guessing around 70% of the questions will be something you’ve seen before and know where to find the answer. The other 30% are designed to suck your time. ERSA/AIP provides the preferred method to cancel SARTIME. They also provide guidance on other options. It’s a matter of thinking about how you’re going to reach the appropriate agency given the frequencies available where you are (VHF/HF) when there’s no way of phoning.

yeah cheers.. I did actually have that sartime one in my prac exam. managed to find it. I am struggling with remembering where to find things.. I can remember a few even found the answer to which way the aerial should be on your epirb in the ersa emerg section.. I got 2 wrong from somehow clicking wrong answer even tho I knew the right one. had 1 where all the answers where correct so had no idea ho to chose correct one. the had my very first question about which frequency to use and had to look at the erc , ersa and another plan.. I had absolutely no idea what o look for as havent done nav yet. but will figure it out
cupid stunt
New Member
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Dec 2020

Re: cplh law question

Postby cupid stunt » Tue Jan 12 2021, 23:29

Just out of interest for atpl law did you need the ERC highs? I seem to remember being told that you don’t but don’t want to find out the hard way

Return to “Flight Training”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest