IFR training

A place to have your say and ask your questions on anything in the Helicopter learning environment.
BBwantok
Silver Wings
Silver Wings
Posts: 56
Joined: Mar 2011

IFR training

Postby BBwantok » Sat Mar 3 2018, 02:02

Has anyone completed, or is currently undertaking PHS's IFR course?

Any info on a recent course anywhere in Australia would be great.

Thanks.
Fill-level
Silver Wings
Silver Wings
Posts: 14
Joined: Dec 2017

Re: Ifr training

Postby Fill-level » Sat Mar 3 2018, 04:43

Limited choice in Australia now.

1. PHS with a AS355 - Elite flight sim
2. Rotorlift with a BK117 - Elite flight sim
3. Heliwest were doing them in a BO105 - Elite flight sim

Not sure if Beckers is still doing Civil IR's.
Chopperline is closed
Mag seal
1st Dan
1st Dan
Posts: 263
Joined: May 2010

Re: Ifr training

Postby Mag seal » Sat Mar 3 2018, 05:55

The cost of doing this yourself would be very very expensive.

20 hours sim

20 hours AS355

Exam and flight test.

$70,000???
User avatar
Jabberwocky
2nd Dan
2nd Dan
Posts: 404
Joined: Dec 2007

Re: Ifr training

Postby Jabberwocky » Sat Mar 3 2018, 09:17

Much cheaper to get a job with Beckers and earn your rating that way.
User avatar
Evil Twin
3rd Dan
3rd Dan
Posts: 525
Joined: Mar 2007

Re: Ifr training

Postby Evil Twin » Sat Mar 3 2018, 09:37

Go do it in the US, the lowest $$ cost by far
RotorBez
Silver Wings
Silver Wings
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 2014

Re: Ifr training

Postby RotorBez » Sat Mar 3 2018, 09:46

Evil Twin wrote:Go do it in the US, the lowest $$ cost by far


Thanks for this EvilTwin.

Do you have knowledge / advice / recommendations as to where to go?

Only asking as I am considering doing exactly this and wondered if you are speaking from a learned perspective.
User avatar
Twistgrip
3rd Dan
3rd Dan
Posts: 996
Joined: Sep 2006

Re: Ifr training

Postby Twistgrip » Sat Mar 3 2018, 14:02

G’day BB.
Following on from what Mag Seal has stated,
If your considering laying up some big coin for your Multi IFR off your own accord consider going to Level D Sim training (instructors provided at request) at Agusta AW139/189, Airbus H175, Sikorsky S92 and get yourself a type rating and IPC on a type above and have it validated on your license, these are the main types used in offshore / EMS.

Plenty have done it in Europe to gain employment albeit a huge commitment.
"You can watch things happen, you can make things happen or you can wonder what happened!!"
wotyaup2
Silver Wings
Silver Wings
Posts: 23
Joined: May 2012

Re: Ifr training

Postby wotyaup2 » Sat Mar 3 2018, 15:35

Fill-level wrote:Limited choice in Australia now.

1. PHS with a AS355 - Elite flight sim
2. Rotorlift with a BK117 - Elite flight sim
3. Heliwest were doing them in a BO105 - Elite flight sim

Not sure if Beckers is still doing Civil IR's.
Chopperline is closed



Yes Heli west can do them with some notice, and yes it can be done in a BO105, but I think they can also do it in an 206L (if that can still be done) which helps on the $$ front, the Sim is an AS355 configuration.
Last edited by wotyaup2 on Sat Mar 3 2018, 15:41, edited 1 time in total.
wotyaup2
Silver Wings
Silver Wings
Posts: 23
Joined: May 2012

Re: Ifr training

Postby wotyaup2 » Sat Mar 3 2018, 15:39

Evil Twin wrote:Go do it in the US, the lowest $$ cost by far



I could be wrong, as thats fairly common for me haha, but to my knowledge CASA will not recognise a FAA IF. As any pilots that I have dealt with that held an FAA IF, CASA would not except it when converting their licenses. Anyone else out there able to shed a bit more light on this?
User avatar
Master Cylinder
200th Member!
200th Member!
Posts: 407
Joined: Aug 2006

Re: Ifr training

Postby Master Cylinder » Sat Mar 3 2018, 22:05

wotyaup2 wrote:
Evil Twin wrote:Go do it in the US, the lowest $$ cost by far



I could be wrong, as thats fairly common for me haha, but to my knowledge CASA will not recognise a FAA IF. As any pilots that I have dealt with that held an FAA IF, CASA would not except it when converting their licenses. Anyone else out there able to shed a bit more light on this?



I know for a fact that the rating itself will NOT transfer from US (FAA) to Aus (CASA). They will recognise the IFR course having completed but you'll still have to do IREX AND the flight test here.

MC
To fly is human, to hover...divine!
BBwantok
Silver Wings
Silver Wings
Posts: 56
Joined: Mar 2011

Re: Ifr training

Postby BBwantok » Sun Mar 4 2018, 01:40

Thanks TG, and FL.
As per my original question, I wanted feedback from anyone who had done PHS's course, or another...
I fly a BK, and my may need this for more flexibility, and for pilots I wil be employing within the next 6 months.
The US may be an option, and I am aware of the FAA/CASA conversion requirement.
User avatar
havick
4th Dan
4th Dan
Posts: 1060
Joined: Jun 2007

Re: Ifr training

Postby havick » Sun Mar 4 2018, 03:30

BBwantok wrote:Thanks TG, and FL.
As per my original question, I wanted feedback from anyone who had done PHS's course, or another...
I fly a BK, and my may need this for more flexibility, and for pilots I wil be employing within the next 6 months.
The US may be an option, and I am aware of the FAA/CASA conversion requirement.


PHS has a good sim and a good platform to train on and Melbourne has a reasonable amount of approaches to practice on. I don’t know anyone that’s completed an instrument rating with PHS but their facility looked pretty good.

Rotorlift also offers a good package if they still have their as355 and Sim. There’s also a reasonable amount of approaches to practice. The advantage of rotorlift in your situation is that you could do an IPC in their BK which would cover you once you finish your course for your own aircraft (lots of assumptions here).

Beckers can do it in a single to keep costs down on the hourly rate (not sure how all three companies compare in cost). I guess that’s if they can slot you in around there contract students?

In your shoes I would probably go the rotorlift option for the flexibility of the BK which you’re already familiar with and type rated. It will also save you the hassle of doing half of it again and some extra navs in Australia to get used to operating in Australian airspace under the ifr if you decided to goto the US and do and instrument rating and then convert it back to CASA by way of IREX and flight test.

If you end up going the US route a good school that won’t rip you off is Cloud9 in West Palm Beach FL. I’ve also heard good things about Mauna Loa in HI and Jerry Trimble Helicopters.

Good luck.
"You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel."
BBwantok
Silver Wings
Silver Wings
Posts: 56
Joined: Mar 2011

Re: IFR training

Postby BBwantok » Sun Mar 4 2018, 20:35

Thanks Havick.
Our operation is not based in Australia, so not concerned about the conversion.
User avatar
havick
4th Dan
4th Dan
Posts: 1060
Joined: Jun 2007

Re: IFR training

Postby havick » Sun Mar 4 2018, 23:12

In that case your money will go a lot further in the US.

Good luck.
"You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel."
ChicoCheco
1st Dan
1st Dan
Posts: 232
Joined: Nov 2012

Re: IFR training

Postby ChicoCheco » Mon Mar 5 2018, 11:21

I spent bit of time in Oregon last year (too late too little, thanks to faffing with living in Oz..)

Anyway, met some Aussie guys (one could have been Kiwi) sorting their FAA ATP and one doing IFR without ATP, for the twin job upgrade with one of the PNG operators. The Aussie normally splitting time between Oz and Canada had some N-reg contract offer he wanted.

You can only ask few around for first hand experience with Jerry Trimble Helicopters. I did fly there most of my rotary hours, plus elsewhere in Oregon and Utah a bit. McDermott guys did their CPL conversion there years ago also. Couple Shaun/Shawns.

Yes, FAA IR, 40hrs training/hood/sim time, credit for fixed wing hood time also. The only issue could be FAA XC time for rating issue, but can be built during the training to an extent. 15hrs in flight with heli CFII (IR FI) minimum. Choice of R22 and R44, basic sim, AATD heli sim, even bit of 172 hood time if you fancy.

Just fly yourself to PDX, sort verification ahead, for PPL privileges (or even without in theory, depending on experience, but the IR needs full FAA or piggyback licence to be put on in the end, if verification is delayed initially) pickup, housing, admin, all normally sorted/helped with. Family run company.

Can't comment on Cloud9, or Mauna Loa in detail, but both would cost you more. Especially Manua Loa rates and housing. For few hrs of something Hawaii would be cheaper to get to with Jetstar. Upside of Cloud9 would be time like NOW, US winter when it can interfere with training progress on limited timeframe in Oregon.

Hope it helps.
Lude
Silver Wings
Silver Wings
Posts: 20
Joined: Oct 2012

Re: IFR training

Postby Lude » Mon Mar 5 2018, 13:57

Had a lot of Kiwis and Aussies who worked all over the world coming through to do the FAA IFR and ATPL during my time at Mauna Loa. They have an IFR R22, a few IFR 44s and 66 if it tickles your fancy. PM me if you want more details.

Cloud 9 are a great outfit, I speak from personal experience. Geoff the owner is an Englishman and a really nice fella.

No personal experience with Jerry Trimble but have only ever heard great things.
User avatar
havick
4th Dan
4th Dan
Posts: 1060
Joined: Jun 2007

Re: IFR training

Postby havick » Mon Mar 5 2018, 15:21

Lude wrote:Had a lot of Kiwis and Aussies who worked all over the world coming through to do the FAA IFR and ATPL during my time at Mauna Loa. They have an IFR R22, a few IFR 44s and 66 if it tickles your fancy. PM me if you want more details.

Cloud 9 are a great outfit, I speak from personal experience. Geoff the owner is an Englishman and a really nice fella.

No personal experience with Jerry Trimble but have only ever heard great things.


Yes all three options are great options. Personally I would pick which ever place has the most stable weather for the time of year.

I switched over my ATP, CFI, CFII and organizes my part 61 nvg instructor sign off through cloud9. I turned up with all my exams in hand and the whole process took about 4-5 days. They only flew the minimal amount that was required to get me comfortable for the three flight tests in their local area and get used to the minor airspace differences that I was used to. They also have a R22, 44 and 66 for instrument training, which ever one you want to use. I think I flew about 3-4 hours prep in the R22 plus the three flight tests. Then I did one flight in an nvg R44 for currency in the US and also got my part 61 nvg instructor sign off.

If you don’t have the need for an Aussie IPC I would go the US route and do the training in a mix of R22 (for initial instrument scan and intercepts etc) then a R44 with an Autopilot to get used to flying with an autopilot.
"You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel."

Return to “Flight Training”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest