Max amount of aircraft for training

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VBlade
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Max amount of aircraft for training

Postby VBlade » Sat Feb 17 2018, 03:34

Is there a maximum amount of different model aircraft that can be used for Cpl-h training on 105 or 125 hrs

Or are you bound to a max of 2?

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Niko
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Re: Max amount of aircraft for training

Postby Niko » Sat Feb 17 2018, 04:58

It depends. Is your school still operating within the transitional window rules (aka the operations manual is still technically only CAR5 complient)? If like for most schools out there, the answer is a yes; then from what a CASA delegate has told me then the ol’ 2 aircraft 25hrs minimum rule still applies

Also, it should state this inside the part E (or equivalent) of the operations manual; and all personnel must follow the ops manual

Off topic but there was a similar confusion with instructor ratings a while back. A school handed one out without training the student to 40hrs because part 61 states it’s competancy based. However the school was found to be in the wrong, as the course they were approved to teach inside the ops manual was 40hrs
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VBlade
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Re: Max amount of aircraft for training

Postby VBlade » Sat Feb 17 2018, 05:17

Guess that’s the reason why we’re receiving mixed info on this.

What if schools are changed mid training and are running on different operational manuals.....
Can your hours done on a 3rd aircraft not be recognised??

Are you aware of when the transitional window ceases.

May need to call CASA to confirm my confusion, or that might confuse me more, ahah
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Re: Max amount of aircraft for training

Postby Niko » Sat Feb 17 2018, 06:01

Whichever school you’re with, you’re following their manual. I think you may be getting confused, I’m going to take a different example

The operations manual is a company document that showcases how the company is going to comply with the rules set by CASA. It’s binding. So let’s take CAAP234 which is your minimum fuel for flight requirements. It states black and white that fixed reserve is 20min for VFR helicopters. But some ops manuals say to carry 30min fixed reserve. All company pilots then must carry 30min even though the CAAP states 20min. The example above with instructor ratings is an other example

Currently the CASR141/61 legislation asks for 150hrs for the updated CPL course. This is a key reason why most schools haven’t gone over to the new rules. If your course is 105hrs then the school is still on the old rules *and two aircraft is all that you can get*. Schools who already held approvals before September 2014 would be shooting themselves in the foot if they jump over to the new rules. New schools are not so lucky.

Now, by the way, CASA are changing this all back to 105hrs and removing the IF requirement, showcasing that revolutions live up to their name, with a 360’ turn back to where everyone started

Under the new system I’ve been told by a casa delegate that you can fly as many helicopters as you like. However whichever aircraft you do your flight test in, is the one you walk out with. Usually a SEH Class helicopter (if its a type then drinks are definitely on you and we’re drinking top shelf only). If you want more you must complete a flight review (and training) for every SEH class helicopter you wish to fly after you obtained your license. However all hours count

Call CASA and find out. Bonus: you call three times and will get five different answers - however I’m quite certain that at least one of them would be the one I have given pop;
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VBlade
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Re: Max amount of aircraft for training

Postby VBlade » Sat Feb 17 2018, 09:51

Hey Niko,

Thanks for clearing that up, got you now. (My shout top shelf for that clarification.)

Wonder if CASA have made that amendment to the CASR141/61 legislation yet.
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Re: Max amount of aircraft for training

Postby _chopper » Sun Feb 18 2018, 23:02

Hey VBlade and Niko.

Just want to clear a few things up there having just gone through the process of getting a new 141 off the ground.

The 105 hour course that's compliant with the old CAR 5 limits you to 2 different helicopter types. A new school (141 operation) can still offer the 105 hour course it just needs a syllabus that's approved by CASA and compliant with the transitional rules. Which just means compliant with the old CAR 5 rules. So if you're doing this course and fly more than two types within the course then you don't qualify for the 105 hour special course and 125 hours it is.

Currently. The transitional rules will expire at the end of August this year after which everyone will move to he ICAO complaint 150 hour course where there is no limit on the types you can fly.....

However! CASA has realized (finally) what a dumb idea it was to remove the 105 hour, non-ICAO compliant, license without proper industry consultation. So late last year they did consult the industry about whether or not part 61 should be rewritten to include a 105 hour course as an option. The result was massive support for this to be the case. So as a result CASA has promised to do so. Most likely they won't be able to accomplish this before the above mentioned deadline and it (the deadline) will be extended to facilitate the rewriting of 61, syllabus creation, and transition of operators over to 141.

BUT. To your point. There was discussion in the consultation about whether or not to include the two types limit in the new 105 hour course. And the results were a little more mixed. So we will have to wait and see what CASA decides on this one I think.


As a side note. "Type" is now ill defined in this context as part 61 just lumps all the machines typically used for training together into the single engine helicopter class. So there is going to have to be some new way of describing this limit if it is kept.
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VBlade
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Re: Max amount of aircraft for training

Postby VBlade » Mon Feb 19 2018, 04:51

Thanks Chopper. Good read.

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