To pay or not to pay??????????

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Gold Wings
Gold Wings
Posts: 186
Joined: Apr 2012

Re: To pay or not to pay??????????

Postby Zebt » Sun Apr 15 2012, 21:39

I agree with OOW. I am just starting out in the flying business but have been involved in the maritime business for many years, mostly offshore and some on shore service management, but the lengths to which the company 'should' go to support the employee largely depends on the size of the company, ie. can it sustain the costs. Regarding medicals I would suggest that unless the company provides a private health scheme the individual is responsible for his own unless as above the company is big enough to absorb the costs. I have just coughed up almost 600 bucks for my first Class1! (Sydney).

Don't forget, at the end of the day the pilot is 'selling' his skills to the employer, whatever is required to keep yourself current should be your responsibility and if the employer decides to cover your cost then that is a benefit.

Perhaps a bit off topic but I am finding the financial aspects of this industry interesting - for want of a better word - still can't quite work it all out, seems like a huge amount of effort put in by the pilots for not too much reward (BTW I'm not getting in it for the money), if I compare it with for example becoming a Navigating Officer on board a ship, spend approx 3 years combined study and sea time and you can get licensed to be in charge of the navigation of the ship (small cargo), a few more years and you can take charge of a larger ship etc etc, work up the ranks 3rd officer, 2nd officer ... as an ozzie you can expect to be payed around 140k for 2nd officer, captains job 200k+. There are similarities in both industries, academic level, time spent (heli training to CPL followed by a few years of hour building before getting more money than minimum wage) HOWEVER, I would suggest that the initial pay scales are a lot higher for the cadets/junior officers at sea, I know there are many complex reasons why you can not really compare the two but it is what I know and there are some similarities. A good hard look at the government policies is where I would start.
Silver Wings
Silver Wings
Posts: 66
Joined: Feb 2009

Re: To pay or not to pay??????????

Postby Practice » Mon Apr 16 2012, 23:59

I don't have an issue with paying for medicals, but BFRs is another thing - especially for full time employees.

Couldn't find anything in the award about either issue.
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hand in pants
4th Dan
4th Dan
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sep 2006

Re: To pay or not to pay??????????

Postby hand in pants » Tue Apr 17 2012, 02:57

I think I've said this before but will repeat it anyway.

If all of the precious low houred and underpaid pilots want the award, DON'T WORK FOR ANY LESS. Walk away if you are offered under the award and go to FWA (not that you can expect much from them, look how long it took to investigate the HSU). But walk away, don't winge/cry hard done by/insist you are worth more. Same goes for exceeding flight or duty times and flying overloaded. Say NO. They can't and don't hold a gun to your head. They can't stop you from going home or unloading a bag or body.

It is up to the Pilot in Command to determine if the flight is legal and if you go ahead when it isn't you have no one to blame but yourself, you, the afore mentioned "Pilot in Command". You broke the law by flying heavy or flying when you had exceeded your flight times or duty times, not the boss, YOU. Step up and take responsibility. Being responsibile for operating within the rules rests with you.

If enough walk away/say no, companies won't get pilots who will do anything for those elusive hours. You're all out there crying about how much money you had to spend to get the licence and hard it is to get anywhere, it's your fault. You front up and tell the boss that you'll "do anything" for some flying, mow the lawns, wash the cars, sweep the hangar, anything for a chance to fly. And I'll do it for bugger all money just for the flying. Pathetic. You cry because you had to work so hard to get the licence and it is exactly as hard to get that first job as the flying school said it would be. DUH!

So to sum up for the slow ones -
# you know where to find the award
# print it off and go to your nearest helicopter operator
# when you get told what the wages and conditions are, flick out your copy and check it's all okay
# start working on the award wage with award conditions;
# move on to the next operator.

Hand in Pants, I'm thinking, my god, that IS huge!!!!!!!!
Silver Wings
Silver Wings
Posts: 43
Joined: Mar 2012

Re: To pay or not to pay??????????

Postby Justwanttofly » Tue Apr 17 2012, 04:03

I have taken a few phone calls ever the past couple of months asking if I had work available, but before I could say anything in response they then added they would work for FREE........I guess maybe I should have got up them for offering, but I just said that at the moment I have nothing and if we did we would pay.

When I travelled around looking for work when I first got my licence. I never once mentioned the F word or was it asked of me.

Nice post HIP, I agree.

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