Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Looking for some info on converting to or from an Aussie Flight Crew License?
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Tom
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Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby Tom » Sat Jul 3 2010, 04:33

Here's a curly question, on which, for all the smarty-pants, a bit of a CASA and Google and Bladeslapper searching did not shed any light.

Say I started CPLH training in the US and logged some hours, say 20 or 30 or whatever, it doesn't really matter. If the US wasn't working out, and we (my wife and I) returned to Australia and I wanted to finish my CPLH under CASA, would these FAA hours be recognised as legitimate training hours which I could rollover to a CASA student logboog and be contributed toward the 105hrs? Obviously there would be differences in the syllabus to make up for (in the remaining flight training) and the CASA exams of course, but as long as the time/money wouldn't be wasted.

Obviously this is a less-than-deal hypothetical scenario, but one I'd like to investigate. I don't plan to split the training, I'm just looking at 'what-if's. Only friendly replies necessary - I don't expect anyone to know my unique situation in its entirety - but you know how some folk on the public forum will try and criticise almost anything.

Thanks!

T.
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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby Quick Release » Sat Jul 3 2010, 04:53

Well i can tell you. when you convert a licence from another country, the licence held has to be made up of the same amount of Dual / solo / nav etc etc. as ours or fly the balance to achieve this result and to our standard. But of coarse only recognising these hours because you hold a licence.
CASA will recognise the licence and so the hrs.... not holding a licence, then certifying the hrs is to difficult and wont happen. They are not going to investigate the school or what ever/who ever did your training, or take your logbook on face value.
Finish the licence in that country and then convert it, if you only have a few hrs then see them as a good foundation to start training here on and start again.

This is as i see it happen..usually... not to say you couldnt kick a goal if you push CASA hard enough and present them with enough supporting documentation, at the end of the day you will fly to a standard set by the school (and so casa).. so why should it matter. Good luck.
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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby skypig » Sat Jul 3 2010, 05:13

You should be able to credit your flying towards the 125 hrs required (105 is a "special" course). The 125 hrs is a minimum, obviously you have to be recommended for, and pass a test.

If you did say, 20hrs, I’d suggest the differing syllabus and lack of continuity would render them near useless in the grand scheme. Having them count towards the 125hr course would result in 105hrs more required anyway. If you did much more than 20hrs, as suggested, best to get a licence, even a PPL, and convert that and go from there.

Hope this provides “food for thought”.

Sky "Learn to fly where you want to work" Pig 8) 8)
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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby Drumpump » Tue May 17 2011, 04:40

What about gaining type endorsements in Australia for previous time on type in the US given that there are no type endorsements below 12500lbs under the FAA ?
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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby i4iq » Tue May 17 2011, 05:10

Drumpump wrote:What about gaining type endorsements in Australia for previous time on type in the US given that there are no type endorsements below 12500lbs under the FAA ?


Send a copy of your log book hours on type to CASA and they'll consider giving you an endorsement.
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harold
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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby harold » Thu May 19 2011, 01:05

In a nutshell, if you did only 20 to 25 hours in the US, every one of those how's can go towards your licence in Australia. They will need to be accepted by the Australian school but as long as they're gained through an approved school and your log book is appropriately certified, there should be no issues!
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hand in pants
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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby hand in pants » Thu May 19 2011, 03:55

I agree with Harold, as long as the school can verify the hours. Lesson hate sheets, log book certified by the school, plus the fact that you will have some idea of how to fly after 20 or so hours.
We have no problem taking the hours flown by a student at another school in this country when he swaps where he wants to spend his money, what difference is it if he did the training in another country.
I would go to the school first, not to casa. Get the school's opinion and if required, then go to casa.
Hand in Pants, I'm thinking, my god, that IS huge!!!!!!!!
Mike Becker
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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby Mike Becker » Thu May 19 2011, 06:51

Simon (Skypig) is actually right here. The hours will count towards a 125 hour course but not a 105 hour course.
The CPLH licence in Australia is 125 hours reduced to 105 hours if done through an acreddited school as per their syllabus. Trainees within Australia can swap from one accredited school to another, no problems, but overseas people can only credit any hours towards a 125 hour course.
If they do go to a school and only do a 105 hour course and use 20 or so hours from their overseas training then a CASA audit will pick it up and a little extra will be required.
This question has been asked quite a bit in the past and this is the answer that we give after having consulted with CASA

Re overseas time logged on helicopters, any ATO can write up the endorsement based on proof of previous flying (log book is fine) however we also need to look at the character of the person asking to make sure it is not just parker pen time so some sort of verification may be requested such as a letter from a past employer or similar.
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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby Peter Holstein » Wed Jun 15 2011, 03:04

CHANGES TO FAA CPL(H) CONVERSION:
CASA is now drafting changes to the FAA CPL(H) conversion to the Australian CPL(H) Licence.
Coming shortly, the requirements are to change whereby the FAA convertee will require 300 hours on the FAA CPL(H) Licence before it can be converted to the Australian equivalent.
It has been recognised that the present arragements are not sufficiently meeting the theoretical requirements as set by the present Day VFR Syllabus and this recommended change will
go a long way to alleviating this deficiency and making this short-cut less attractive to people.
The change will also go a long way to securing the future and continued viability of the Australian Helicopter Training Industry.
10/10 for CASA's action in this matter and the support of AHAG in addressing this serious loophole!
i4iq
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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby i4iq » Wed Jun 15 2011, 07:47

I don't think it will lead to a higher quality of conversion but it will protect the industry a little.
Cheers



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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby skypig » Wed Jun 15 2011, 07:53

Simon (Skypig) is actually right here.


First time for everything I guess :?

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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby SkyBurner » Wed Jun 15 2011, 09:35

It's about time something was done about this american scam! I know of at least 5 pilots who have gone down this path that are out there parading as commercial pilots with barely enough knowledge to pass BAK.
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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby Jamie » Wed Jun 15 2011, 10:20

It's about time something was done about this american scam! I know of at least 5 pilots who have gone down this path that are out there parading as commercial pilots with barely enough knowledge to pass BAK.

I'm not sure about your experience SkyBurner but having trained half in the States and half in Oz I found the U.S school far superior. The theory component required the U.S Instructor to provide at least equal time on theory (ground school) to flight training and included a minimum of 10 hours of Instrument training.

All students had to be able to draw a wiring diagram, fuel schematic, and know the P.O.H off by heart in the U.S, where as my Oz Instructor didn't even know what a starter vibrator was?

The U.S Instructor was responsible for the theory exam results of the student. My Oz Instructor couldn't give a stuff what my CASA exam results were and was not compelled to check my theory knowledge as it was in the U.S.

I'm sure it depends on the particular school you choose but that was my experience.
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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby havick » Wed Jun 15 2011, 10:37

Jamie, there's a difference between a bare CPL(H) conversion and an instructor conversion FAA to CASA. At least with the latter it's not just a tick and flick computer exam that you've already got all the questions for.

We all know that passing the CPL(H) written exam in the USA is simply a matter of getting those computer programs that has the entire FAA exam question bank. That includes ATP.
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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby Jamie » Wed Jun 15 2011, 11:20

Havick, when you say 'we all know' you sound like it's a common thing to train in the U.S and convert over? Apart from yourself, how many pilots do you know have done this?

My CPL exam in the U.S consisted of a 4 hour aural exam followed by a flight test - unlike the Oz flight test. The Oz Aural consisted of a review of the KDR and a basic flight plan which took 30 mins.

We all know both the U.S and Oz theory exams are exactly the same, being computer based multi choice. Not sure how you passed it, by I actually studied and thought it best to actually know the theory and not just 'just a tick and flick'.

there's a difference between a bare CPL(H) conversion and an instructor conversion FAA to CASA

Did I mention anything about an Instructor conversion?

Tell us about your U.S flight / aural test Havick?
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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby HFTB » Wed Jun 15 2011, 11:23

Peter Holstein wrote:CHANGES TO FAA CPL(H) CONVERSION:
CASA is now drafting changes to the FAA CPL(H) conversion to the Australian CPL(H) Licence.
Coming shortly, the requirements are to change whereby the FAA convertee will require 300 hours on the FAA CPL(H) Licence before it can be converted to the Australian equivalent.
It has been recognised that the present arragements are not sufficiently meeting the theoretical requirements as set by the present Day VFR Syllabus and this recommended change will
go a long way to alleviating this deficiency and making this short-cut less attractive to people.
The change will also go a long way to securing the future and continued viability of the Australian Helicopter Training Industry.
10/10 for CASA's action in this matter and the support of AHAG in addressing this serious loophole!



Has anyone got anymore info on this ? I can't find anything on CASA site ...
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havick
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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby havick » Wed Jun 15 2011, 11:27

I didn't train in the USA, I went the other way and converted my CASA quals to FAA (not that I ended up needing the FAA ticket, but that's another story). The written component was a joke as the system allowed for wrote learning as opposed to actually learning the content. As annoying as the CASA style of questioning is, at least it forces students to learn the content.

I suppose like any aural exam, it depends on who you get on the day (both in the USA and in AUS). When I originally did my CPL back in 2002 here in Aus, the testing officer asked me lots of questions. When I did my ATP conversion in the USA, the flight examiner in my opinion glossed over a lot of content (I had all my CASA ATPL exam credits etc before anyone points the finger of circumventing the aussie system). The reason I went over there was that I had a job lined up at the time that an FAA ticket was required, instead I stayed here in Aus the way things worked out with excellent opportunities.

I still maintain the written component in the USA is token, given the ability to wrote learn if one desires to pass it that way. I'm not saying all students do this but a lot do from what I noticed when I was over there. That's just my opinion, I'm not suggesting that pilots from the USA are second tier merely pointing out the deficiency in the written component.

I don't think that the hands and feet skills of a freshly minted pilot from the USA would at all differ to the Australian product however there is the potential for there to be some gaps in knowledge. Personally I think that passing the all written exams here and 3 hours of training in CTR and a flight test should suffice (assuming they meet the minimum req's WRT solo time, x-country time etc in our 125 hour syllabus). Once again, my humble opinion only.

Still, at least this initiative would go some way to protecting the lower hour guys in the industry. I wayy out of touch with the newbie jobs, but are there really that many USA trained guys in this bracket out there looking for work in Australia?

**Edit, Jamie I just re-read your post re; equal time ground school vs flight time hence my post about instructor conversions.. I think I originally mis-understood what you were saying at first glance.
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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby Jamie » Wed Jun 15 2011, 12:17

I agree with you Havick, it does depend on the examiner on the day - good point.

As far as the theory exam is concerned, I can't see the difference between a 'Bob Tait' book of questions and answers to the U.S q & A books - they are exactly the same.

Wrote learning is a matter of attitude, not where you train. If you want to just pass the theory exam, just study the q & a books such as Bob Tait and the U.S test preps.
If you want to gain the knowledge and be a good pilot, study the required theory syllabus in the CAOs or the FAA test standards.

Of the 4 Oz pilots I know who trained in the U.S, all got jobs when they arrived home and all for reputable well known companies.
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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby SkyBurner » Wed Jun 15 2011, 23:26

Im not referring to people who properly train in the US and convert their licence over to CASA. I'm referring to the Aus pilots who hold a private CASA licence, shoot over to the US and take out the FAA CPL(H), complete less than 10 hours flying training including the flight test and one exam (questions and answers provided), return to Oz with a fresh FAA CPL(H) complete yet another airlaw exam and a flight test buy a questionable Testing officer and hey presto! A shiny new CASA CPL(H), completely bypassing all 6 remaining theory subjects and the appropriate flying training as outlined in the Day VFR syllabus.
I know I didn't get my licence out of a cornflakes box.
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Re: Recognition of FAA training hours in Oz/CASA

Postby harold » Thu Jun 16 2011, 00:44

Let's not kid ourselves! The US FAA conversion from oz PPL to US CPL is a single examination that most can pass with as little as 2 days study! How can that arrangement possibly cover the 7 examinations you are expected to complete here in Oztrailer?

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