Bladeslapper

So rumour has it a B206 fell over at Caloundra last week. Surprised, or not, that it's not been posted on here.. Not on ATSB site yet

Not that surprising... a few months ago I was reading an article about a light plane crash at another sunny coast airfield... at the end of the article it mentioned a jetranger crashed there just a few days prior, with a link to the article (which was dead). Fortunately google managed to find a cached copy for me and low and behold it was a well known training schools 206 on the side.

It would appear some of the owners have friends in high places...

If you need any more convincing look at this VET fee mess... yes flooding the industry with fresh CPL holders will solve all our "pilot shortages". IMO that money should be spent on up skilling existing CPL's! (although I am a bit biased here)

its on the sunshinecoastdaily.com.au ....not difficult to work out who it belongs to

ET aside...

Is it really important who did it??

No its not..

Is everybody ok..

That is the most important question that none of you asked...

All you care about is slandering... cause thats the tone of your posts...

None of you are perfect! No one is and accidents will happen.. For Fookin sake show a bit of support for fellow aviators.. cause one day you may need their support...

Mallard wrote:Not that surprising... a few months ago I was reading an article about a light plane crash at another sunny coast airfield... at the end of the article it mentioned a jetranger crashed there just a few days prior, with a link to the article (which was dead). Fortunately google managed to find a cached copy for me and low and behold it was a well known training schools 206 on the side.

It would appear some of the owners have friends in high places...

If you need any more convincing look at this VET fee mess... yes flooding the industry with fresh CPL holders will solve all our "pilot shortages". IMO that money should be spent on up skilling existing CPL's! (although I am a bit biased here)

This isnt VET fee help related. So what if it was. Your first statement should have been to ask if the instructor and student are ok.

bladepitch wrote:ET aside...

Is it really important who did it??

No its not..

Is everybody ok..

That is the most important question that none of you asked...

All you care about is slandering... cause thats the tone of your posts...

None of you are perfect! No one is and accidents will happen.. For Fookin sake show a bit of support for fellow aviators.. cause one day you may need their support...

I think its more about the integrity of this site and the perception that adverse comments or percieved criticism of certain operators is squashed or deleted.....

My beef is that when an accident is involved then the first concern should be for crew and pax..

Fill-level wrote:its on the sunshinecoastdaily.com.au ....not difficult to work out who it belongs to

Is the one from 31st of July? The article is behind a paywall... the photo is very interesting however. Looks awfully like those two previous ones overseas (sweden/canada?) where the sprag clutch jammed doing an auto, and when they tried to rejoined the needles the N1 came up without the NR and THEN the sprag engaged at full noise and sheared the splines off the top of the mast.
One of them departed exactly like that, the other one the pitch links were wound around the mast.


I'm sure the occupants are fine, otherwise they would not be able to cover it all up so effectively!


*edit* found the previous one I mentioned above.
http://aerossurance.com/helicopters/b20 ... otor-loss/

Not sure why the big deal naming the operator. It was a training accident, so it happens.

Apparently bloggs put in a bootfull of the wrong pedal practicing jammed right pedal. Instructor didn’t catch it in time.

Happened at Beckers.

Sh*t happens. Hope they both had a change of underwear.

Apparently bloggs put in a bootfull of the wrong pedal practicing jammed right pedal. Instructor didn’t catch it in time.

That worries me a bit - for a practice jammed pedal, the instructor has both feet on the pedals - how can he not "catch it", and what the hell was the dopey student doing pushing on the pedals anyway? Didn't listen to the long brief or the pre-flight briefing?

Eric Hunt wrote:That worries me a bit - for a practice jammed pedal, the instructor has both feet on the pedals - how can he not "catch it", and what the hell was the dopey student doing pushing on the pedals anyway? Didn't listen to the long brief or the pre-flight briefing?

Exactly. Student has feet on the floor the whole time, instructor has feet on the pedals. Easy peasy.

zzodr wrote:

Eric Hunt wrote:That worries me a bit - for a practice jammed pedal, the instructor has both feet on the pedals - how can he not "catch it", and what the hell was the dopey student doing pushing on the pedals anyway? Didn't listen to the long brief or the pre-flight briefing?

Exactly. Student has feet on the floor the whole time, instructor has feet on the pedals. Easy peasy.

And all students do exactly what was briefed? All instructors never let their guard down?

Easy peasy.

Exactly.

Just like with FW spinning (and recovery) training. Do NOT pick up wing with stick. Or opposite aileron. Briefing doesn't guarantee all hunky dory.
There have been few training crashes with stuck pedal training,hover auto etc all across Australia. There will be.

Reality is when human brain is shocked/in fear, "instinctive" reaction happens. Bypassing cortical (thinking/logic) brain. Limbic system in charge. Fight flight freeze "laws"/mode. We are trained not to be human dealing with emergencies. Easier said than done.

when we do jammed pedal practise, i just cannot leave my feet on the floor, they are always on the pedals trying to push....

Hi lady’s and gents.
Glad the pilots are alive!
I’m not an instructor, But along with board briefs, would synthetic or in machine dry rehearsal training be benifitial for these types of ops before carrying out the real thing?
I realise sitting on the pad or in the hanger is no where near the same as the feeling like you are about to crash in a spinning whilst climbing or descending moment
( Engine power, collective and pedle positions can get you out or into trouble in this situation)
I can read, and my hearing is better than perfect for briefs, but some people respond better to practical learning. (Me included)
Just a thought.
I know I have attempted to enlighten a few idiots in the past on here, but what can we do to reduce loss of life and these incidents and accidents?
Insurance companies rub their hands together...
Safety, lives, happy clients and income.
GF.

godfather007 wrote:Hi lady’s and gents.
Glad the pilots are alive!
I’m not an instructor, But along with board briefs, would synthetic or in machine dry rehearsal training be benifitial for these types of ops before carrying out the real thing?
I realise sitting on the pad or in the hanger is no where near the same as the feeling like you are about to crash in a spinning whilst climbing or descending moment
( Engine power, collective and pedle positions can get you out or into trouble in this situation)
I can read, and my hearing is better than perfect for briefs, but some people respond better to practical learning. (Me included)
Just a thought.
I know I have attempted to enlighten a few idiots in the past on here, but what can we do to reduce loss of life and these incidents and accidents?
Insurance companies rub their hands together...
Safety, lives, happy clients and income.
GF.

Level D sims are great for this. Unfortunately R22’s, Hughes 300’s and even old 206’s are cheaper than operating a level D sim.

At some point though you need to see emergencies in a real aircraft though, at least for ab-initIo as even the best level D sims don’t give you the full visual cues and extra sensory information.

Honestly for the amount and type of training Becker’s does, they have a pretty good record.

Hi Havick.
Exactly what u have said is what needs to be explained on these discussion.
Thanks for the insight.
Not everyone on here has the knowledge of such.
I think it’s healthy to be open and explore the reasons around such safety and operational issues.
Keep the intel up I say.
ATM, I’m going to sleep, I’ve been on night shift.
Regards,
GF.

Out of all of the emergencies we practice continually, how many actually happen.

How many on here have actually had jammed pedals or jammed controls of any sort. How many actual engine failures have been experienced, how many hovering/taxiing autos have there been? Yes there are some and yes we need to know how to recognise what the failure is and what to do about it, but at what expense.

Are we that dumb that we have forgotten it all after two years, that our motor skills and mussel memory fade to nothing?

It's the same for the HUET, why are we doing it every two years, flying in the wire environment, another one that is repeated over and over again as if we are stupid, this bull s#!t fire rating, we do it for a living and some clown in Canberra decides to invert a costly little exercise for us and then there is no syllabus, no approved training pilots and we have to repeat it every two years.

Are we that stupid according to Canberra.

Yeah, statistically it doesn't add up. So many accidents just training for the accident that doesn't happen.

In 15,000 hrs I have had:

Engine failures: zero
Emergency requiring an OEI-type landing: 1. It was a high-side N2 runaway. (BK117)
Any other engine problems: zero
Hydraulics problems: zero
Electrical problems: 1, gen fail at night, just got the 206 back to Mascot when it all went dark.
Tail rotor problems: 1. On descent for final, felt like the pedals had gone stiff. Did pedal-jam approach, all good. Ground checked serviceable, no fault ever found. (Huey)

Training accidents: 1. Doing night touch-down autos to an unlit pad, recurrent training, something which CA$A dictated as a requirement for operating below safety height at night. I think they have subsequently removed that requirement. As Doug Mulray said the next morning on Triple M, "Poor old Polair Two! Last night he was practicing crash landings, and he cut his own @rse off!"

Eric and HIP,
Good points I guess, for you old salts anyway. I guess for you guys/gals that fly mostly continuously, you are always connected to your machine and know what is going on.
I know as a newbie I always appreciated going back over all these points as a general refresher for everything while doing the BFR. All part of keeping an low experience, I'm talking as a sub 1000hr pilot's mind on the ball. Unfortunately my career bombed out at 750hrs so I don't have to worry, but I can imagine your frustration at having to repeat these costly exercises for what seems to be very limited gain.