169 crash

What have you heard?
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Jabberwocky
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Re: 169 crash

Postby Jabberwocky » Tue Nov 13 2018, 10:36

It’s the internet, you’re all free to gloss over whatever you feel the need to. I personally think flyhuey has calmed down a bit and don’t mind his posts. It’s certainly a more interesting career than mine. But one thing is for sure, there’s always a safety aware undertone that some of you just don’t even give the chance to recognise.
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Re: 169 crash

Postby PhilJ » Tue Nov 13 2018, 10:48

Flyhuey in his first post says he has never flown a backup profile.

I was under the impression it wasn't how big it was it is what you do with it.

Not a lot of point lecturing on the back if all you've experienced is the front.
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Re: 169 crash

Postby Saucepan » Tue Nov 13 2018, 12:06

Flyhuey just lacks modesty. If he/she had anything real to say they'd say it on a website with more credibility, maybe even with a real name and not behind another moniker....or two....as seen before.

Good luck. :roll:
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Re: 169 crash

Postby Jeffory » Tue Nov 13 2018, 13:24

Well until a few years ago in Australia, ATPL's were issued without a flight test, so not hard to achieve.
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havick
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Re: 169 crash

Postby havick » Tue Nov 13 2018, 17:17

Back on topic. Any more info about the crash?

And for what it’s worth even with his grandpa Simpson esq rantings, the chief Pilot of Southern Air here in the USA verified flyhueys’s 747 career when I was speaking to him 6-8 months ago.
"You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel."
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Re: 169 crash

Postby flyhuey » Wed Nov 14 2018, 23:08

havick wrote:
verified flyhueys’s 747 career

Thanks, J . . . for your favourable words.

The Chief Pilot I knew when I was merely a F/O, back, then 'circa '96, has since passed away . . . Not even the same company . . . Re-invented after bankruptcy . . . They had one 74, back then . . . Prior to that, I flew the L-382/C-130 Herc when it was "Southern Air Transport", spent 5.5 months in Angola, Africa, when there was a civil war between UNITA and MPLA, spent quite a bit of time at Air Force bases, wearing civil pilot uniform and DoD ID . . . That Chief Pilot who took me on, 14 February 1994, I walked in to the headquarters building (a different location from today), walked up the stairs, met him walking down, and he hired me on the spot, though I had less than half the flying time I retired with, and only held my first ATPL 12 years. He was the only military fast-jet Pilot who told me how much he respected Army helicopter Pilots . . . He was shot down during the Vietnam Conflict and was rescued by helicopter. With SAT, I was part of the crew that brought the first Herc across the Pacific -and, had to turn back the first attempt, barely making it into KOAK. I flew the Herc 2244 Hours. My favourite aircraft. It was operationally suited to any environment, and I believe I saw them all, from 320nm north of the Arctic Circle to LaPaz, Bolivia, with an Airport Elevation over 13,000 feet. Was suppose to do 250 hours domestic, but after only 150 hours, I was flying internationally. My first trip was from Charleston, to Canada, across the Atlantic . . . and we made our way to Kenya and across Zaire to Benguela, Angola (at one time renowned as the "African Riviera". Civil War ruined that and most of the infrastructure. All the while, I was flying Army helicopters, as a "weekend warrior", where I got promoted and was trained as a Maintenance Test Pilot . . . and, flew my own aircraft. I was always flying and always flying something different. SAT proved to be a springboard for my career, got directly hired by another company, as a 747Freighter F/O, though not current and not Type Rated, in October1997. By 1 July 1999, I graduated from Flight Safety/Boeing 747-400 Transition and Captain Upgrade Course. 20 September 1999, I made my first trip to Oz -and been treated like a loathsome asswipe, ever since, by those with an inferiority complex, jealous of the experience I had or could bring to a company. One management-Kunt remarked to a friend, "Ah he hasn't done half of what he claims", though he never saw my logbooks, never sighted my seven ATPL (including Australian which I sat several exams for and had a Instrument Flight Test), my Instructor Licence I held since 1982 (for Helicopters or my Instrument Flying Instructor Licence held, since 1987 . . . The fact was, I had more flying experience, more varied flying experience, and more credentials than him (just in helicopters). And, that is the way it is here. Someone better, knock him back or knock him down. In another world, though not a perfect one, I never experience such contempt or jealousy. I was NEVER jealous of any Pilot who flew something bigger or heavier or faster or carried more passengers. I just wanted to know how that Pilot achieved it -and got busy. I never considered myself a real Pilot, until I flew transoceanic. So, I set myself a goal. I would either do it in my aircraft or fly for an airline that does -for example. Never, absolutely never did I imagine I would be flying across the North and South Atlantic, Indian, Pacific, South Pacific as a Captain, flying the newest, most modern four engine jet (the A380 wasn't even on paper, yet). I never thought I was good enough or smart enough or had enough experience, because I never flew jets in the military.

Well, again, don't eat yourselves up inside with jealousy. Get busy. Study. Read flying stories. When you meet or fly beside a "Grandpa Simpsonesque" Pilot, ask questions, soak up his knowledge, like a sponge, ask him, how he did it. I just loved and respected guys like that . . . one month from retirement, "one foot in the grave", and I wanted to learn as much as I could from them, just in case I might need that knowledge, someday. I remember one old Check and Training Captain, on the Herc, named Harv and the names of the senior and more experienced Pilots who influenced me, stand out in my mind and I can still see their faces, clearly, as if I am sitting beside them, today. NEVER ONCE, did I ever disrespect a senior or more experienced Pilot or refer to him as "an old man blowing wind in his sails" or "a has been", or "an irrelevant old man". I grew up in a different time and a different culture, where I was taught to so respect and refer to people by their title or "Sir" or "Ma'am". I know an Australia who is a Councilman who flew RAAF F-111. I am not jealous, I am in awe. Oddly, he suggested that he was in awe of my varied career.

If you yearn to learn as much as you can about flying, there is a lot I can teach you. I will keep you safe. No?! Anyone of you guys ever pace off the diameter of your Main Rotor System? Anyone of you ever used a Winds Aloft Forecast to take advantage of a tailwind in a helicopter to extend your range or determine what the surface wind might be on some featureless isolated mountaintop? How many of you hold an Instrument Rating? How many of you have gone out to learn to fly a different type of aircraft? Do you think getting a Commercial Seaplane Pilot Licence might make you more aware as a Pilot of a Float-equipped helicopter -or vice versa (in my case)?

If you don't want to learn or if you think I have nothing to contribute, that is a pity. It says more about you and the type of Pilot you are -and, is the real difference between us.



https://www.flickr.com/photos/cassidyphotography/45324125271/
Last edited by flyhuey on Thu Nov 15 2018, 02:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Evil Twin
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Re: 169 crash

Postby Evil Twin » Wed Nov 14 2018, 23:31

The problem isn't your experience, it's that you spend most of your time on here ramming it down peoples throats.
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Re: 169 crash

Postby Eric Hunt » Thu Nov 15 2018, 00:40

Evil, you know that you can choose to read it, or not.

I choose to read it.
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Re: 169 crash

Postby Evil Twin » Thu Nov 15 2018, 01:36

Really Eric, every time? How many times have we been told about the seven ATPL's? 5hit I've even had ranting PM's with that in there. If having all that experience turns you into someone like flyhuey, I'm glad I'll never have it. I will however learn from others as I always have, I just object to the firehose of someone's ego being pointed in my face
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Re: 169 crash

Postby flyhuey » Thu Nov 15 2018, 02:04

Eviltwin wrote:
ramming it down peoples throats

That is how you read it . . . Do you do much reading? Can you read? Reading books written by Aviation authors/Pilots/ Muroc Test Pilots . . . One might argue the same reading their experiences. Still there is something to be learned, with an open mind and proper attitude.

I read a story, written by a WWII Combat Pilot who became an Air Force Test Pilot . . . Oh boy! Full on "Right Stuff" kind of read, as most are. What they write about their flying experiences or what they experienced testing a particular aircraft is what I hungered for.

This one Test Pilot, experienced a Landing Gear malfunction in his "Test Bed", I cannot recall what the aircraft was. He pulled have done what most average Australian Pilots do and make a belly landing or get creative. About a month later, whilst flying Single Pilot, in a Cessna 402B at night, over the mountains, in a Winter's snow storm, my Left Main Gear failed to extend and lock on an ILS with a 6,000 ft. Mountain on Final. I had a Red Light. I was flying passengers. I retracted the Landing Gear, my first instinct. I extended the Landing Gear, with the same result. Left Main Gear "Red". My initial thought was could merely be a Micro-Switch. Better judgment had me retrieve the Emergency Procedures Checklist and run it, still on the ILS Approach, in cloud, at night, 6000 ft. mountain ahead. Rock the seat back, extend the crank and crank 52 times -or something like that. I communicated to ATC the problem. I got below the clouds. ATC wanted me to come in and they would "foam the runway". I did not like that idea very much. I told them I would take up an orbit over this small town that would keep me clear of the mountains, up to 10,000 ft. Of course, I told the passengers. I decided to try out the Test Pilot stuff, since the Emergency Procedure Checklist failed to render three Green Lights. I tried that Test Pilot's trick one after the other, until I got three Green Lights. It had worked, just as it had for the Test Pilot. I was only 29 years old. The owner of the Charter company gave the passengers the option of flying back via the airlines, but they said they preferred to fly back with me, "because at least we know we will get there". Fukcing A! 29 years old and to have passengers who knew nothing about me except for that first flight with the landing gear malfunction to say that.

Eviltwin (doubting Thomas), what if I dismissed that Muroc Test Pilot book as him "ramming his experience down our throats" . . . Yeh, nothing to learn from that guy, that blow hard, just showing off what a great pilot he is . . . I WAS HUNGRY FOR THAT KIND OF KNOWLEDGE -throughout my career. AND, his not so humble reflections on his career, and what he achieved and how he achieved it, probably saved my life and the lives of my passengers, that Winter's night. Today, I still cannot know enough about Aviation and finished "QF32" and am working on another flying story. The difference between you and me, to be sure.
I will however learn from others as I always have,
There-in lies the source of the incident/accident statistics, here, in Australia . . . The blind leading the blind. You got Instructors teaching formation flying, here, who never spent one day in the military, where they are professionals, at it, in a tactical environment. You got guys blowing their horn about how much time they've got long line or high speed hoist, but WTF do you think we do in the military? Here, you have to have a logbook entry . . . There was a period of time, I didn't even know what a Pilot Logbook was or even why I should keep one. AND, even with seven Jeppesen Pilot Logbooks that isn't enough, here. I was issued a wide-carriage spreadsheet with a one line entry for all my Army flying, from 1978 to 1994. Maybe that suggests I never did one sling load, long line, hauled a bambi bucket, made a rescue with a rescue hoist, never flew formation at night, never flew an approach to a tactical beacon or to a tactical VASI . . . Shallow thinkers might assume that. Knockers, definitely would.

Just do not poison the minds of those who still have hope of learning and are hungry to learn from those more experienced and senior in the industry. Yours is a contagious, dangerous know-it-all, over-confident attitude.
Last edited by flyhuey on Thu Nov 15 2018, 02:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 169 crash

Postby Evil Twin » Thu Nov 15 2018, 02:10

flyhuey wrote:Eviltwin wrote:
ramming it down peoples throats

That is how you read it . . . Do you do much reading? Can you read? Reading books written by Aviation authors/Pilots/ Muroc Test Pilots . . . One might argue the same reading their experiences. Still there is something to be learned, with an open mind and proper attitude.

I read a story, written by a WWII Combat Pilot who became an Air Force Test Pilot . . . Oh boy! Full on "Right Stuff" kind of read, as most are. What they write about their flying experiences or what they experienced testing a particular aircraft is what I hungered for.

This one Test Pilot, experienced a Landing Gear malfunction in his "Test Bed", I cannot recall what the aircraft was. He pulled have done what most average Australian Pilots do and make a belly landing or get creative. About a month later, whilst flying Single Pilot, in a Cessna 402B at night, over the mountains, in a Winter's snow storm, my Left Main Gear failed to extend and lock on an ILS with a 6,000 ft. Mountain on Final. I had a Red Light. I was flying passengers. I retracted the Landing Gear, my first instinct. I extended the Landing Gear, with the same result. Left Main Gear "Red". My initial thought was could merely be a Micro-Switch. Better judgment had me retrieve the Emergency Procedures Checklist and run it, still on the ILS Approach, in cloud, at night, 6000 ft. mountain ahead. Rock the seat back, extend the crank and crank 52 times -or something like that. I communicated to ATC the problem. I got below the clouds. ATC wanted me to come in and they would "foam the runway". I did not like that idea very much. I told them I would take up an orbit over this small town that would keep me clear of the mountains, up to 10,000 ft. Of course, I told the passengers. I decided to try out the Test Pilot stuff, since the Emergency Procedure Checklist failed to render three Green Lights. I tried that Test Pilot's trick one after the other, until I got three Green Lights. It had worked, just as it had for the Test Pilot. I was only 29 years old. The owner of the Charter company gave the passengers the option of flying back via the airlines, but they said they preferred to fly back with me, "because at least we know we will get there". Fukcing A! 29 years old and to have passengers who knew nothing about me except for that first flight with the landing gear malfunction to say that.

Eviltwin (doubting Thomas), what if I dismissed that Muroc Test Pilot book as him "ramming his experience down our throats" . . . Yeh, nothing to learn from that guy, that blow hard, just showing off what a great pilot he is . . . I WAS HUNGRY FOR THAT KIND OF KNOWLEDGE -throughout my career. AND, his not so humble reflections on his career, and what he achieved and how he achieved it, probably saved my life and the lives of my passengers, that Winter's night. Today, I still cannot know enough about Aviation and finished "QF32" and am working on another flying story. The difference between you and me, to be sure.

Just do not poison the minds of those who still have hope of learning and are hungry to learn from those more experienced and senior in the industry. Yours is a contagious, dangerous know-it-all, over-confident attitude.


Just can't stop can you? One thing I am defintly not is a know it all nor over confident. You can insult me as much as you like, it demonstrates my point much more lucidly that yours. As I have stated before, respect is earned not demanded.
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Re: 169 crash

Postby flyhuey » Thu Nov 15 2018, 02:24

I demand nothing. Guess what, do not give a toss if I earn it or not. I am who I am. Cannot please everyone. Not going to try. Take it or leave it. In the cockpit though . . . ego and personality and individualism is left on the ground. I CRM it. Safety is #1.
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Re: 169 crash

Postby Evil Twin » Thu Nov 15 2018, 02:25

By shouting about what you have done at every opportunity, demanding respect is exactly what you are doing.
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Re: 169 crash

Postby flyhuey » Thu Nov 15 2018, 02:36

That is how you read it. Your perception. When you have professional knockers (think facebook and bouffant twitter kunts) continually disparaging or casting doubt and making themselves appear more knowledgable, how would you phrase it to get your point across? You must admit there are folks on here who do not even hold a Kite Licence, yet come across and write stuff often counter to common sense, regulatory, or what is in an Operator's Manual, AND are the same ones quick to write for the benefit of their followers that I am full of myself. How does one sort out the difference between a Drone Pilot and a Chinook Pilot or a Hammer Mechanic in some sweaty greasy garage and a LAME or A&P? Background and filler info and explanation . . .
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Re: 169 crash

Postby Eric Hunt » Thu Nov 15 2018, 03:44

Settle down, girls.

Huey, over on Peaproon, there are a couple of pilots who have basically their own page - one is on rotorheads with photos of Nepal, which are astounding, the other was called "Getting a set of pilot's wings in WW2" or similar - sadly the author died at 97 just a few days ago.

Maybe you are able to start a thread with stories from the past, and Evil can choose to enter the thread or not? Your stories will make great reading - or do you already have a blog somewhere?
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Re: 169 crash

Postby bangequalsbad » Thu Nov 15 2018, 06:00

:D
Oh wow. Grandpa is off his meds.
If you start smelling burning toast call a paramedic immediately.
I pity your keyboard.

Bangers.
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Re: 169 crash

Postby flyhuey » Thu Nov 15 2018, 06:45

Eric Hunt asked:
or do you already have a blog somewhere?

I do Eric . . . though for something else I am passionate about and been doing longer than I have been a Pilot. And, I explore every conceivable genre and do my uttermost to excel.
I also offer my experience and opinions. The difference is, I designed my website to cock-block knockers.
https://cassidyphotography.net/my-opinion/

I was first recognised for my photography, in 1977, by my Commander, while serving in the Army. I could use my choice of camera, have all the 35mm slide I wanted, an Army sedan, to photograph Frankfurt, Germany and surrounds, to create a slide show, for newly arrived Officers. Colonel Neimes waited for the Army-trained Photography to take annual leave, before asking me to do it. I was first published and paid for my photography, in 1992, in an Aviation magazine, overseas. The Editor wrote to me, before email, that my "article and photographs put his magazine on the map".

For a period of my life, I combined both passions and had an Aerial Photography business. I owned and paid for everything, myself, from the photography platform with FAA-approved modifications I designed to the camera systems. I flew with the stick between my knees while taking aerial photos -after a 360 degree clearing turn, of course.

bangequalsbad Ah, ha, ha, ha! Yeh, you're right, I have not had an Aspirin, in a long while, the most I ever need or take. I pity your pecker. Keep both hands on the keyboard. Another faceless-facebook/twitter style keyboard warrior. I am sure your like-minded comrades had a chuckle.
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Re: 169 crash

Postby utc » Thu Nov 15 2018, 07:48

The AAIB has published a special bulletin in regards to the incident.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... G-VSKP.pdf


The helicopter then began a climb on a rearward flight path2 while maintaining a northerly heading. Gear retraction started as it passed through a height of approximately 320 ft. The climb then paused. Heading changes consistent with the direction of pedal movements were recorded initially, then the helicopter entered an increasing right yaw contrary to the pilot’s left pedal command. The helicopter reached a radio height3 of approximately 430 ft before descending with a high rotation rate.


I would assume that the AAIB has conclusively determined that the pilot made left pedal control input. Does the 169 have a data collection unit of some sort (maybe HUMS) that records control input? Is this information also fed into the FDR?
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Re: 169 crash

Postby Evil Twin » Thu Nov 15 2018, 08:52

flyhuey wrote:Eric Hunt asked:
or do you already have a blog somewhere?

I do Eric . . . though for something else I am passionate about and been doing longer than I have been a Pilot. And, I explore every conceivable genre and do my uttermost to excel.
I also offer my experience and opinions. The difference is, I designed my website to cock-block knockers.
https://cassidyphotography.net/my-opinion/

I was first recognised for my photography, in 1977, by my Commander, while serving in the Army. I could use my choice of camera, have all the 35mm slide I wanted, an Army sedan, to photograph Frankfurt, Germany and surrounds, to create a slide show, for newly arrived Officers. Colonel Neimes waited for the Army-trained Photography to take annual leave, before asking me to do it. I was first published and paid for my photography, in 1992, in an Aviation magazine, overseas. The Editor wrote to me, before email, that my "article and photographs put his magazine on the map".

For a period of my life, I combined both passions and had an Aerial Photography business. I owned and paid for everything, myself, from the photography platform with FAA-approved modifications I designed to the camera systems. I flew with the stick between my knees while taking aerial photos -after a 360 degree clearing turn, of course.

bangequalsbad Ah, ha, ha, ha! Yeh, you're right, I have not had an Aspirin, in a long while, the most I ever need or take. I pity your pecker. Keep both hands on the keyboard. Another faceless-facebook/twitter style keyboard warrior. I am sure your like-minded comrades had a chuckle.


I just followed the link out of morbid curiosity, you are the font of all knowledge and we should all do your bidding. I bow before you...... ET out, beam me up scotty
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Re: 169 crash

Postby flyhuey » Thu Nov 15 2018, 10:10

https://dspace-erf.nlr.nl/xmlui/bitstream/handle/20.500.11881/408/ERF200222.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/helicopter_flying_handbook/media/hfh_ch02.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/ac90-95.pdf
https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-alerts/Documents/SA_062.pdf
https://flightsafety.org/ao/ao_jan-feb91.pdf

So, just wondering, about Antitorque Rotor efficiency hovering rearward versus forward?

Wondering about Class 1 takeoff, what were the Winds above the Stadium Wall/Overhanging Roof?

Wondering if Class 1 takeoff is truly the safest manoeuvre, if wind direction is unknown?

Wondering at what forward airspeed airflow over the Vertical Fin would improve directional control during LTE or complete loss of T/R Thrust?

Wondering in a foot ball stadium that size, could a Pilot taxi to the furthest end, downwind, then takeoff with some forward airspeed into the wind, with a steep rate of climb, up and over the roof and if one or both engines fail take it as it comes?

Wondering when doing a Class 1 Takeoff, would a Pilot's control input be so precise as to land spot on or possibly with a bit of forward flight and overshot the spot?

Wondering how must thrust is required to hover vertically to say 500 feet OGE, then how much thrust would be required to overcome the Drag footprint of the entire fuselage whilst hover backwards, OGE?

Please explain. And, if you can provide specific references and PDF links, all the better.

So, is that takeoff the best performance model and the safest takeoff option? Again, not all Multi-engine helicopters and not all Multi-engine helicopter Pilots use that takeoff.

Where is it in the Regulations governing a specific takeoff profile to use?

Here is a learning opportunity.

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