Airborne Video Recorders, Cameras, and Systems

169 crash

What have you heard?
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hand in pants
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169 crash

Postby hand in pants » Sun Nov 4 2018, 22:19

Nobody has said anything as yet.

Sad to see this happen, feel for the pilot/pilots at the wheel and the passengers.

RIP
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utc
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Re: 169 crash

Postby utc » Mon Nov 5 2018, 04:21

Very sad indeed. RIP to those who lost their lives, and thoughts to those affected.
bj225
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Re: 169 crash

Postby bj225 » Mon Nov 5 2018, 08:26

Anymore info about where or when?
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FerrariFlyer
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Re: 169 crash

Postby FerrariFlyer » Mon Nov 5 2018, 09:02

Footprint Productions
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Re: 169 crash

Postby Footprint Productions » Mon Nov 5 2018, 10:52

Horrible to watch....

Can the pilots who fly the bigger stuff explain they lifted off going backward?

Would there ever be a situation that makes this essential? Why not just turn around before lift off?

I can hear the wind noise from the camera mic, but surely it would be better to head into it even with such a big machine?

Cheers
Matt
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Re: 169 crash

Postby Icefather » Mon Nov 5 2018, 19:29

It’s a common class 1 profile takeoff practice. To go vertical and backwards so in event of engine failure you can descend back to your lift of point. Normally committal point (where they pitch forward and can no longer return to takeoff point) is around 100ft agl

Though I heard that in England it could be higher
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Re: 169 crash

Postby Footprint Productions » Mon Nov 5 2018, 21:21

Thanks, that makes sense.

Cheers
Matt
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Skeeter
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Re: 169 crash

Postby Skeeter » Tue Nov 6 2018, 20:59

The committal point or Take-Off Decision Point (TDP) depends on the profile used.

The AW169 has one with a variable TDP up to 400ft for departures with higher obstacles in the departure sector.
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Re: 169 crash

Postby utc » Wed Nov 7 2018, 03:08

A friend who is currently flying the 169 has informed me that Leonardo has issued a service bulletin that addresses a requirement for an inspection of the T/R servo actuator.
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Re: 169 crash

Postby flyhuey » Fri Nov 9 2018, 11:08

I have used the Class 1 Takeoff profile.

What the hell is the point of a multi-engine aircraft if it is not certified to continue takeoff on one engine?! Multi-engine aeroplanes will continue takeoff, at a reduced R.O.C. and likely maximum power up to 5 minutes, maintaining configuration, banking 5 degrees toward the live engine and using Rudder to track along the extended centreline (After V1).

Don't see CH-47 or CH-46 or CH-53 takeoff backwards. Never seen a Blackhawk takeoff backwards. I flew a BV107 II. I never did a Class 1 reverse takeoff.

I did have/had one engine droop, in an AS355F2, during initial takeoff, but I merely settled to a comfortable hover, straight ahead. No big deal.
Last edited by flyhuey on Sun Nov 11 2018, 05:10, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 169 crash

Postby FatBoy1971 » Sat Nov 10 2018, 02:36

It depends on how the aircraft is certified as to whether it backs up during departure or climbs vertically. I've flown both profiles, depending on aircraft and situation. For example, if the reject from an engine failure prior to TDP requires flying forward to the landing area, and I departed from a helipad, then I backed up. If there was area in front of me to allow for a rejection, like a paddock or open sports oval, then I climbed vertically, rejecting forward and down.

flyhuey, I agree with you about a multi-engine helicopter able to fly away on one engine following an engine failure, but that is after TDP (or V1 for fixed wing). You wouldn't continue a takeoff if you had an engine failure prior to V1 in fixed wing.

Engine failure prior to or at TDP is a rejected takeoff, at or after TDP is a fly away. TDP is the only place where you can do either.
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bladepitch
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Re: 169 crash

Postby bladepitch » Sat Nov 10 2018, 02:50

Anyone else notice a fragment or piece of aircraft come from tail and into tip plane path then into the down wash past the camera at about 85 sec mark, happens just prior to rotating forward..
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Re: 169 crash

Postby muppet » Sat Nov 10 2018, 05:38

Yes bladepitch, saw that and looks eerily like something flying off the T/R. The AD that was issued required an inspection of the tail rotor actuator (Leonardo Emergency Alert Service Bulletin (ASB) 169-120 and ASB 189-213) https://ad.easa.europa.eu/ad/2018-0241-E and even though they say it is only precautionary, which is a fair enough thing to say I guess, they must have some reason for starting there. Just a horrible situation to be in and have to feel for the poor guy and his girlfriend (and the pax). Not a good place to be with a serious TR issue (if there is a good place at all!).
Guess we have to wait and see what they find.
flyhuey
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Re: 169 crash

Postby flyhuey » Sun Nov 11 2018, 05:07

FatBoy1971 wrote:
flyhuey, I agree with you about a multi-engine helicopter able to fly away on one engine following an engine failure, but that is after TDP (or V1 for fixed wing). You wouldn't continue a takeoff if you had an engine failure prior to V1 in fixed wing.

Engine failure prior to or at TDP is a rejected takeoff, at or after TDP is a fly away. TDP is the only place where you can do either.

Thanks, for that.

It has been a while . . . And, believe it or not, I used to be an Instrument Examiner on Multi-engine Helicopters . . . Need to get out the WD-40 or the mental equivalent.
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bangequalsbad
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Re: 169 crash

Postby bangequalsbad » Sun Nov 11 2018, 06:12

flyhuey wrote:It has been a while . . . And, believe it or not, I used to be an Instrument Examiner on Multi-engine Helicopters . . .Need to get out the WD-40 or the mental equivalent.


We don't.
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Eric Hunt
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Re: 169 crash

Postby Eric Hunt » Mon Nov 12 2018, 10:13

Why is this site full of people who see a poster's name and immediately rubbish whatever they wrote, saying it must be bulldust??

Probably all wannabees who just haven't ever made it in the real world, green with jealousy.
flyhuey
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Re: 169 crash

Postby flyhuey » Tue Nov 13 2018, 02:51

bangequalsbad

Let me know the date you earn an IFR ATPL in Rotorcraft Helicopter and for how low you have held it.

Let me know the date you earn an Instrument Flying Instructor Rating and for how long you have held it.

Let me know the date you become an Instrument Examiner in Multi-Engine Helicopters and how long you held it.

Did you fly helicopters in the military? Were you any kind of a Test Pilot in the military?

Please tell me what is the largest/heaviest helicopter you have flown.

Please tell me the largest passenger aircraft you have flown, how many engines, furthest distance you have flown, highest altitude you have flown, the highest mountain you have landed on, the furthest out to sea you have flown.

Please tell me from how many countries you hold an ATPL.

Have you ever lectured just one Aviation subject at university?

Have you ever written a book about anything, let alone flying?

Or, are you merely a faceless blade slapper warrior.

At least, I can state for a fact, "been there, done that". Somehow, for as average as I am, compared to your lofty self, I never scratched paint, in the 130 different aircraft I have flown.

Lastly, if your over-confidence doesn't get the best of you, you may live long enough and be old enough to reflect back upon your career, and will be like me, wanting to pass on knowledge to the younger generation, who will think nothing more of you than "an old man blowing wind in your sails" -as one kunt suggested, or as another has put it, "irrelevant old man".

You have ay idea how Stone Age folks evolved . . . one passing on knowledge to another . . . One generation passing on knowledge to the next. And, so on. Aviation improves the same way.

Recently, an aircraft crashed short of the runway, into the sea, resulting in a fatality. Five years before it happened, I emailed the Fleet Manager of that same company, with the details with the prescient warning, "so the same doesn't happen to us". My advice wasn't heeded. I still have that email with PDF attachments.

bangequalsbad if you do not want to learn from me, take any advice, evolve, there is a problem with your attitude . . . and it is a dangerous attitude. It can be contagious.

Thanks, for replying, anyway. It merely reinforces, in my mind and probably others, what an amateur you are, afflicted with Tall Poppy Syndrome. Don't be jealous, merely aspire to achieve the same goals I set for myself or better.
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Re: 169 crash

Postby Evil Twin » Tue Nov 13 2018, 03:38

Oh here we go again :shock:
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Re: 169 crash

Postby FerrariFlyer » Tue Nov 13 2018, 03:39

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Eric Hunt
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Re: 169 crash

Postby Eric Hunt » Tue Nov 13 2018, 07:37

Well, he might be a bit in-yer-face, but in a willy-wagging contest, he has the biggest one so far.

Anybody want to step up to the measuring post? Helonorth perhaps? Black Stump?

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