Flight review

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heli2o
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Re: Flight review

Postby heli2o » Thu Dec 11 2014, 07:06

Hircher wrote:+1
Has anything positive happened with Part 61?


More work opportunity for low hour guys as more students train overseas to avoid paying for 150hrs?
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Re: Flight review

Postby Jabberwocky » Thu Dec 11 2014, 09:27

And less work for the 200 hour grades 3s thinking they'll smash their hours out after becoming an instructor. Going to be hard to log hours instructing when there's noone to instruct.
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Re: Flight review

Postby Coriolis » Thu Dec 11 2014, 10:11

Can anyone imagine what we could achieve as an industry if we all weren't so bl**dy negative!
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Re: Flight review

Postby wheatbix » Thu Dec 11 2014, 10:20

Coriolis wrote:Can anyone imagine what we could achieve as an industry if we all weren't so bl**dy negative!


Sorry Coriolis - excuse my ignorance but can you please explain to me how the positive out ways the negative for the end user of part 61?
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AHIA
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Re: Flight review

Postby AHIA » Thu Dec 11 2014, 11:36

Coriolis,

Wheatbix has a good call here. Next week the AHIA is going a meeting with CASA (Wednesday) in Canberra to review Part 61. In addition, a large gathering of people willing to help sort out the hiccups will discus with CASA potholes in the road we have been assigned.

At CASA's request AHIA will represent their members. President Peter Crook will be helped by CYHeli; who has been working on P61 now for months with CASA P61 liaison officer Dale South and other CASA project team leaders; chipping away bit by bit on problems as they arise.

Coriolis, we really appreciate your intuitive comments which show you are high up on the feeding chain in the helicopter training industry and invite you to provide an answer to Wheatbix; which no doubt in your style will be carefully thought out and may help the AHIA during their preparations for the meeting. You know good CRM stuff. Different points of view, etc.

Are you able to help?
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hand in pants
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Re: Flight review

Postby hand in pants » Thu Dec 11 2014, 20:54

Here are some positives for me:
#1. I will now be doing 4 flight reviews every two years instead of one.
#2. I will no longer have to do my instructor rating renewal. First issued on 17/12/1990 Grade 2 and 17/9/1992 Grade 1
#3. I will no longer have to renew my aeroplane instrument rating. First issued 15/6/1998
#4. I will not have to worry about low level flying rating. Even though I will continue to fly low level as required.
#5. I will no long require CRM.
#6. I will no longer require HUET. (this and #5 due to the fact I won't be doing fire fighting as I won't have a fire fighting endorsement, you know the one that they bought in with out knowing what would be required, who could do the endorsement and what syllabus would be used).
#7 I will no longer be doing sling work as I believe I now need a review on that one as well.


So, a pretty positive out look for me. Lots of money saved. Although I now have to pay for 3 more flight reviews.
One other positive, as promised by those who thought this all up, no cost to me.
Hand in Pants, I'm thinking, my god, that IS huge!!!!!!!!
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Re: Flight review

Postby oei » Fri Dec 12 2014, 02:33

hand in pants wrote:Here are some positives for me:
#1. I will now be doing 4 flight reviews every two years instead of one.
#2. I will no longer have to do my instructor rating renewal. First issued on 17/12/1990 Grade 2 and 17/9/1992 Grade 1
#3. I will no longer have to renew my aeroplane instrument rating. First issued 15/6/1998
#4. I will not have to worry about low level flying rating. Even though I will continue to fly low level as required.
#5. I will no long require CRM.
#6. I will no longer require HUET. (this and #5 due to the fact I won't be doing fire fighting as I won't have a fire fighting endorsement, you know the one that they bought in with out knowing what would be required, who could do the endorsement and what syllabus would be used).
#7 I will no longer be doing sling work as I believe I now need a review on that one as well.


So, a pretty positive out look for me. Lots of money saved. Although I now have to pay for 3 more flight reviews.
One other positive, as promised by those who thought this all up, no cost to me.



HIP , the sad facts are that there will be a lot more very qualified guys like you , pulling the pin......were is all the future flight examiners coming from and grade 1's...future check and training guys.....
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Re: Flight review

Postby Coriolis » Fri Dec 12 2014, 05:53

Just for the record, my post above was not about Part 61 particularly but everything in general. As soon as anyone posts ANYTHING on here, out come the knockers and naysayers. Just appears everything is negative or doom and gloom. Someone dares to list a job on here and out come the knives and the lounge chair warriors......just saying!
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Re: Flight review

Postby Hello Pilots » Fri Dec 12 2014, 11:11

Public forum champ. You got to expect that particularly on a site where some know a whole lot of nothing and more of less but would big note themselves otherwise.
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Re: Flight review

Postby Sheldon Cooper » Sun Dec 21 2014, 03:37

AND .. as it stands ... if you have TWINs (endorsed) on your licence - or the mighty R22 or R44 - you'll need to do a FLIGHT REVIEW in EACH TYPE to keep them current FROM NOW ON.



Are you saying if you are endorsed for a R22 and R44 you have to do a review in both aircraft or are they the same 'type' ?
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Re: Flight review

Postby CYHeli » Sun Dec 21 2014, 05:58

Are you saying if you are endorsed for a R22 and R44 you have to do a review in both aircraft or are they the same 'type' ?


Today and this week, yes. This is due to CASA Instrument 186/14.
There was supposed to be another instrument come out to vary that info, but it has not arrived before Christmas and probably will not be out until the new year.

The new instrument will require a flight review in EITHER the R22 OR the R44 and one will cover the other.
Both will cover the Single Engine Class, but a flight review in a another aircraft from the single engine list will not cover the Robinson R22 or R44.

The R66 is treated the same as the other aircraft in the single engine class, for example the B206.

If you are due a flight review on both R22 and R44 between now and the new instrument, I'm not sure what you can do, other than ask your local FOI.
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Re: Flight review

Postby UAT » Mon Dec 22 2014, 03:35

So the R22 and R44 will remain type rated and thus a flight test required for each?
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Re: Flight review

Postby Surprise » Mon Dec 22 2014, 04:03

CYHeli wrote:
Are you saying if you are endorsed for a R22 and R44 you have to do a review in both aircraft or are they the same 'type' ?



The new instrument will require a flight review in EITHER the R22 OR the R44 and one will cover the other.
Both will cover the Single Engine Class, but a flight review in a another aircraft from the single engine list will not cover the Robinson R22 or R44.

The R66 is treated the same as the other aircraft in the single engine class, for example the B206.
.


So if I only have R44 on my license and never Flown a 22, could I do a review on a 44 then legally fly a 22?
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Re: Flight review

Postby CYHeli » Mon Dec 22 2014, 23:35

UAT and I have chatted over the phone, but for the rest, the R22 and R44 will be in the Single Engine Class and therefore will not each be a Type that requires a Flight Test. They will have particular requirements of an individual flight review.

(Surprise) All helicopter make/models require that a pilot receive training and then a flight test (for a type) or a flight review (for the class) to be permitted to fly that make/model. So, if you haven't received training on a particular make/model, don't fly it!

The R22 & R44 will be in the SE Class and the ability to fly an aircraft under the class will require a flight test for the first one only (61.750) and this test is normally covered by the actual licence flight test (RPL, PPL or CPL). You are licensed to fly the aircraft you did your licence test in.

Each aircraft make/model that comes after that will require training and a... (see above)

Now, an important issue for those that are training right now. If you initially train in one aircraft ( let's pick an R22 or H300) and go solo, etc and then complete the last 20 hours in another and do your licence test in the second one. You are not licensed to fly the R22/H300 until you complete a flight review in that aircraft. Even though you have gone solo, etc in it! It doesn't matter which order or which aircraft you train in, you have can only fly the ones that you have successfully completed a test or review in.
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Re: Flight review

Postby Surprise » Mon Dec 22 2014, 23:41

Thanks again CY. All the clarifications etc are much appreciated
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Re: Flight review

Postby wheatbix » Mon Dec 29 2014, 00:55

While on the topics of flight reviews/proficiency checks - does anyone know whether now with the implementation of part 61 do these still need to be done under the banner of a flying school or is a grade 1 able to conduct them (along with other low level/sling/nvfr proficiency check) him/herself?
Zeus1980
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Re: Flight review

Postby Zeus1980 » Mon Dec 29 2014, 10:56

CYHeli wrote:UAT and I have chatted over the phone, but for the rest, the R22 and R44 will be in the Single Engine Class and therefore will not each be a Type that requires a Flight Test. They will have particular requirements of an individual flight review.

(Surprise) All helicopter make/models require that a pilot receive training and then a flight test (for a type) or a flight review (for the class) to be permitted to fly that make/model. So, if you haven't received training on a particular make/model, don't fly it!

The R22 & R44 will be in the SE Class and the ability to fly an aircraft under the class will require a flight test for the first one only (61.750) and this test is normally covered by the actual licence flight test (RPL, PPL or CPL). You are licensed to fly the aircraft you did your licence test in.

Each aircraft make/model that comes after that will require training and a... (see above)

Now, an important issue for those that are training right now. If you initially train in one aircraft ( let's pick an R22 or H300) and go solo, etc and then complete the last 20 hours in another and do your licence test in the second one. You are not licensed to fly the R22/H300 until you complete a flight review in that aircraft. Even though you have gone solo, etc in it! It doesn't matter which order or which aircraft you train in, you have can only fly the ones that you have successfully completed a test or review in.


So CY just to clarify I will sit my flight test in the R22 and was told that I will have to do a 'mini' test with a CASA Approved testing officer for the R44 is that still correct?
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Re: Flight review

Postby bl@ckers » Tue Dec 30 2014, 01:13

CYHeli wrote:
The R22 & R44 will be in the SE Class and the ability to fly an aircraft under the class will require a flight test for the first one only (61.750) and this test is normally covered by the actual licence flight test (RPL, PPL or CPL). You are licensed to fly the aircraft you did your licence test in.



Have you had any feedback on when the R22/44 will become part of the SEH class?
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Re: Flight review

Postby RGB » Fri Jan 2 2015, 22:01

I have a good idea just repeal 61 I see no benefit to the industry or flying public.

It will slowly kill the industry, perhaps that the governments intent given the sale of airports in recent years as well.

With my experience I used to help a lot if people out with check rides, endorsements and the like both multi and single stuff I would get a call most weeks with the last one just a few days ago to do some 120 stuff.

My standard answer is it's just all to hard with 61, sorry.

So 3 cheers to HIP well said.

As a mate of mine said "I love flying but hate Aviation"....
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Re: Flight review

Postby CYHeli » Fri Jan 2 2015, 23:34

wheatbix wrote:While on the topics of flight reviews/proficiency checks - does anyone know whether now with the implementation of part 61 do these still need to be done under the banner of a flying school or is a grade 1 able to conduct them (along with other low level/sling/nvfr proficiency check) him/herself?

What you have listed as examples are flight reviews, not proficiency checks.
They can be done by a Grade 1 or 2 instructor.
They can be done outside of a school (61.1230), BUT the intent is that a review will include some training to bring someone up to the standard.
All training must be done by a school, therefore, although a FR can be done outside of a school, don't do it that way. There are too many mistakes that can be made, storing copies of documents for 7 years, submitting forms to CASA, etc. Easiest to be done via a school and their processes.

Proficiency Checks must be done by an ATO / FE. They are Instructor ratings, Instrument ratings, Aerial Application (the old Ag) ratings, NVG/NVIS ratings and Examiner ratings. Every thing else is a FR by a G1 or G2 instructor.

To answer the other questions, I don't know when the R22& R44 will join the SE Class. It is overdue and not going to be processed for a couple of weeks due to the holidays. With any luck it will before the end of January (2015...).

This is my suggestion for those who complete a flight test for a licence, don't do a second test for the 'other' type that you used for training just yet. Wait until the new instrument comes out and then complete a flight review with an instructor at the school. Unless you find an ATO who will do the test and only charge you the same amount as the instructor will, save your money. Unless you need the second type on your licence for a specific job of course. As stated, this is a suggestion, but is the cheapest option.
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