Why can Seaplanes land and Helis can't ?

Need a hand? Try the *Forum FAQ* link at the top. Failing that, post a question here.
arrrj
2nd Dan
2nd Dan
Posts: 327
Joined: Jul 2012

Why can Seaplanes land and Helis can't ?

Postby arrrj » Tue Oct 7 2014, 03:29

Slappers,

In a previous posting I discussed being not allowed to pick up a pax from an area ruled by Gosford Council. In fact, they have issued a "no land anywhere" notice for helicopters. (It's on their website).

Interestingly, I was flying over Brisbane Water the other day, and watched a seaplane land below me. Right beside a nice little sandbank that I could (if allowed) have landed on...it's in the water, but you can walk to the 'mainland'.

Can CY or someone with "the knowledge" answer the question ?

Why can seaplanes land where we are not allowed to ? (And no, smarties, I don't mean on the water !). They pull up to beaches (the land) and load/unload too, again, something we cannot do, certainly not in the subject area anyway.

pop;

Arrrj
SuperF
3rd Dan
3rd Dan
Posts: 545
Joined: May 2010

Re: Why can Seaplanes land and Helis can't ?

Postby SuperF » Tue Oct 7 2014, 04:14

Get some floats, land on the water, taxi to the land, just like the planes do.

Or better still, don't install floats, just stick the skids in the water and drag them up on the beach...
The Scarlett Harlot
Silver Wings
Silver Wings
Posts: 86
Joined: Sep 2009

Re: Why can Seaplanes land and Helis can't ?

Postby The Scarlett Harlot » Tue Oct 7 2014, 04:15

The short answer is;

Irrational prejudice.


The long answer is;

There's no reason for it, it's just their policy.
User avatar
Eric Hunt
3rd Dan
3rd Dan
Posts: 711
Joined: Sep 2006

Re: Why can Seaplanes land and Helis can't ?

Postby Eric Hunt » Tue Oct 7 2014, 07:23

Gosford had one of the earliest heliports at Erina, and there was a regular run from there to Sydney mornings and evenings.

Sadly the council had a disagreement with the operators and bit by bit it was shut down by red tape. Prejudice and perceived noise ("I can see a helicopter, so it must be annoying me with its noise.")

Float planes are less noisy and have a little romance attached to them. Can still operate from Rose Bay on the harbour, something which we tried to do by building a floating helipad to motor into the official landing area, but again helicopters lost out.

Some years ago we were running a pub crawl into the Gosford area and were landing on a beach between the high tide line and the water, where the council has no jurisdiction, but they still shut us down.
arrrj
2nd Dan
2nd Dan
Posts: 327
Joined: Jul 2012

Re: Why can Seaplanes land and Helis can't ?

Postby arrrj » Tue Oct 7 2014, 09:03

Eric,

Well understood and thanks.

My question was more "global" using Gosford as an example.

That said...

a) Erina HLS is still open (Gosford Council told me to land there).

b) The ability to land between high tide and low tide was covered by their own "rules"...but I WONDER whether these are binding at law ? It's not their land, how can they make rules ?

c) A council officer told me it was OK to land on any private property EVEN IF DANGEROUS...as that pass their rules (but not mine).

d) Seaplanes ARE REALLY NOISY !!!

I don't understand the difference legally, and will continue to investigate, for us all. If they shut you down...how did they do it and why didn't you fight it.

I am sick of being discriminated AGAINST...we should be welcomed everywhere...particularly if you think about my example of seaplane vs heli.

Arrrj

PS _ it is like when I landed in the Great Lakes district in VIC, with landowners permission, who then got told by some jumped up official that the landowner needed a permit to let me land. What a load of BS...but probably true ! Who does make the rules ? And yep, that is a serious question.
ozloadie
Gold Wings
Gold Wings
Posts: 167
Joined: Oct 2010

Re: Why can Seaplanes land and Helis can't ?

Postby ozloadie » Tue Oct 7 2014, 18:03

There are no hard and fast set rules to cover your question, basically you're parking in a "back yard that is not yours". That's your guide, how do you get away with that?

Justification ( a reasonable excuse or purpose) without provocation (don't upset anyone!) and with consent (someone's permission, or implied consent ie " no one said I can't) sensibly.
Aviation Legislation - given
Council legislation - all individual and location specific
Landowner - his use and consent is subject to consideration of landuse
category and those around him.

Sea and floatplanes do have an exotic aura about them, and they are half boat, making it easier to fit in. The manner that they conduct their ops also contributes to their acceptance, noise discipline. And they got in early!

The best starting point is the attitude of the locals in the pubs, they'll soon tell you who the growlers will be. Any old aviators in town could probably relate any history that may not be obvious that might challenge your noble intentions.

You will always get a complaint from some 'poppy cutter" or dog in the manger, and I've seen on Lake Macquarie in NSW where the barometer swung from all aircraft, ok, then no floatplanes, then no RW, to no FW either. Now the needle seems to be swinging back again to all okay if the new Aeropelican crew get their way, and it should be, the location is excellent for all of them.

Don't make the council your first call, do some discrete homework first. The councils are always windy of what is happening next to the county line as far as liabilities that might require compensation if a claim were to be made. You might touch down below the high tide mark but what happens if the final resting position migrates higher?

Why not offer your services to the seaplane guys as a rescue option for breakdowns or recoveries? They may decide to share the paddock or the pool I should say!
Keep it flying, don't quit!
arrrj
2nd Dan
2nd Dan
Posts: 327
Joined: Jul 2012

Re: Why can Seaplanes land and Helis can't ?

Postby arrrj » Wed Oct 8 2014, 09:29

Thanks for the responses. My question was to create debate.

My view - simply, is that aviation is a Federally governed pursuit and everything involved should be the same. That includes landings.

If so many councils etc have so many different rules, how is the heli community supposed to EASILY operate ?

Sure, I know a lot of guys are either flying tourist loops or fire / rescue / EMS - both have clear rules. But what about the rest of us. Where can we land ?

It's a bloody joke, it should be easy for all of us.

Arrrj

Return to “How do I...”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest