Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

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Hello Pilots
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby Hello Pilots » Wed Mar 26 2014, 14:47

BannerBoy wrote:We are looking to do a series of slung loads at night in the USA.

Does anybody have some advice on what to expect when we approach the FAA for approval ?

Ta


A refusal....
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby kiwiflyer » Wed Mar 26 2014, 18:05

Do you have to get approval to do sling at night in FAA land you don't need to in nz or aust.
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby Evil Twin » Wed Mar 26 2014, 21:10

Can't do sling at night in NZ
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby Heli » Wed Mar 26 2014, 21:33

I've slung a stack of 3 flags at night.

CASA weren't interested from a legality basis, but were professionally interested in the mechanics of doing it!
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby 100ft » Wed Mar 26 2014, 21:40

They used to Heli Log at night in Canada. The hill side and landing areas where illuminated. Not sure how efficient it was, nobody does it anymore. Lumber pricing being low could have something to do with that too. In the high arctic they did IFR sling loads. They had IFR departures and arrivals at either end. Thats when america was scared of russia, and they built radar station everywhere.
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby Heli » Wed Mar 26 2014, 22:42

Done IFR sling loads, too.

Most notable was a Mk 46 torpedo we picked up after a trial drop from a Nimrod, then a GCA back into RNAS Culdrose which took us over the local township. Nice and smooth on descent to avoid a swing building up was more of an issue than what was underneath us.
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby kiwiflyer » Thu Mar 27 2014, 00:53

NZ CAA rule part 133.61 says you can sling at night
Must be another NZ you are thinking of.
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby Evil Twin » Thu Mar 27 2014, 04:17

133.61 Night operations
A pilot-in-command shall not perform a helicopter external load operation
at night when the flight attitude, height, and position of the helicopter
cannot be maintained by reference to external objects adequately
illuminated by the helicopter, ground, or celestial lighting.


Fair enough, but that does narrow down your opportunities though doesn't it...?
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby AgRattler » Thu Mar 27 2014, 06:57

Ring H Hayes , Te Anau , NZ. He has been known to operate the underslung load whilst on NVG.
Redlining in neutral
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby oneliner » Thu Mar 27 2014, 07:15

Evil Twin wrote:
133.61 Night operations
A pilot-in-command shall not perform a helicopter external load operation
at night when the flight attitude, height, and position of the helicopter
cannot be maintained by reference to external objects adequately
illuminated by the helicopter, ground, or celestial lighting.


Fair enough, but that does narrow down your opportunities though doesn't it...?


So a landing light is adequate...not exactly "narrowing down your opportunities". I don't know anyone that would
Longline at night without some sort of visual reference, (NVG's tick that box).
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby Skeeter » Thu Mar 27 2014, 07:17

IF you are doing it under NVG at a not well lightened place it might help to
- sit on the left site (red light of the position lights is much brighter under NVG and can throw a shadow on the right side)
- use the landing light to add some peripheral vision
- position some lights in your view so you realise any drift earlier (peripheral vision)
- have the guy at the line wear a light or so, that you can see him easily
- light up the area (for example headlights of cars, but parked behind the helicopter to avoid blinding the pilot)
- let it do someone who has done it before!

Its easy to get a spatial disorientation doing it.
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby Evil Twin » Thu Mar 27 2014, 07:27

Mate, if you want to longline at night on just a landing light fill yer boots. Video it though so the coroner doesn't have to waste too much time on ya.

If I recall correctly doesn't Hannibal Hayes also have over 28000 hrs experience?
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby SuperF » Thu Mar 27 2014, 19:53

30,000 I think.

I guess by now he might know what he's doing...
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby 2rotorbro » Thu Mar 27 2014, 21:40

So if the rules preclude you from undertaking external load work at night - how is it they fight fires at night with helicopters? No one uses tanks over there that I know of.
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby oneliner » Thu Mar 27 2014, 22:04

2rotorbro wrote:-how is it they fight fires at night with helicopters? No one uses tanks over there that I know of.


Exactly. Evil Twin, just because you have never done it doesn't mean it's not done.
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby SuperF » Thu Mar 27 2014, 22:35

2rotorbro, the rule actually allows you to do it, as long as you can do it VFR.

but my recommendation if lives aren't at risk is don't. from memory Hannibal did it on QT hill and only because it was threatening houses.

maybe they do it other times, but i think when it gets dark its time to start drinking.
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby Evil Twin » Thu Mar 27 2014, 23:58

Oneliner

Mate you win take the points I bow to your clearly superior knowledge
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby BushG8 » Fri Mar 28 2014, 04:09

I'd have to say if your 1 up head out the door vertical ref the way ext loading is really done then no way, however on goggle's with a kelpie in the back which I guess is what the military would be doing it could be ok, thats is before looking to see if it is legal.
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby 2rotorbro » Sat Mar 29 2014, 07:27

I didn't even know about what those south island cowboys get up too - I was recollecting the North of Auckland troopers bucketing at night.
It would freak me out bucketing from the ocean at night especially on a moonless night.
I agree with the previous post's - night time is for drinking and misbehaving.
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Re: Sling Load Night Ops.... Advice please ?

Postby oneliner » Sat Mar 29 2014, 19:50

Evil Twin wrote:Oneliner

Mate you win take the points I bow to your clearly superior knowledge


So when told of an operation that you didn't know occurs, and have never done, your ego can't handle it so you reply with sarcasm. How do you think you'll go in a multi crew environment...

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