Fixed wing to Rotary instructor rating conversion

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ADA87
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Fixed wing to Rotary instructor rating conversion

Postby ADA87 » Fri Jun 23 2017, 09:28

Hey team! Anyone have any advice for whats required to convert from a fixed wing instructor rating to rotary? I have both CPL'S and am looking down the instructing path for heli's now that I've done the planes for a while. Does it require the whole course to be completed, or is there RPL involved??

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Niko
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Re: Fixed wing to Rotary instructor rating conversion

Postby Niko » Sat Jun 24 2017, 08:20

Hey matey. Yes you will require the full course as there is no seperate "conversion syllabus" to follow. Also all the sequences will have to be taught regardless of how many hours F/W one has. EOC in a helicopter is different to the one in a plane [and so on for all sequences]... However! CASR 141/142 approved operators have courses which come under the usual 40 hours total flight time that was a requirement under CAR 5. Now my personal opinions on this aside, usually fewer hours = lower costs. I have seen/been with schools which lend their 22's at very [relatively] cheap rates and I have been with some that try to milk the market for the highest price it can tolerate. So what I am saying is that 'usually'; ain't 'always'. But I suspect you already know this - so those 141/142 Instructor schools are a good start

As a sidenote and something that might save you a bit of a headache. Do not believe anyone who tells you that their course does not have minimum hours. It is true that a school a couple of years ago tried granting an instructor rating well under the minimum hours. This happened plausibly because they didn't understand the 141 mess at the time (and who can blame them). A school must follow the minimums prescribed in their Operations Manual. If it says a minimum of 40 hours, then that's what the minimum is

Good Luck out there,
Mike Becker
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Re: Fixed wing to Rotary instructor rating conversion

Postby Mike Becker » Tue Jun 27 2017, 13:50

Under the new Part 61 it is not that simple.
If you are already a fixed wing instructor then you already hold a FIR you simply only have the (A) category on your licence you now need the (H) category so you do not have to do a full course as you supposedly already have done your PMI and hold the FIR.
What you have to now do is add a helicopter training endorsement to your current FIR.
There are many to select from based on what you want to teach. Unfortunately just doing one "generic instructor course" may not give you what you want.
Gone are the days of simply doing a G2 instructor rating that allowed you to instruct on anything you had on your licence. Now each individual activity is a separate training endorsement with a separate syllabus, and flight test.

So let me throw a couple of examples at you.
You want to gain your helicopter instructor rating for the purposes of teaching other people to fly a helicopter for the purposes of gaining a RPL, PPL or CPL. In this case you will need a G3 (H) training endorsement as a minimum (the entry standard for training towards a licence). If you go to a school that has a syllabus approved by CASA then you may be able to do a 25 hour course (or similar depending on what they have approved and unfortunately each school could now be different as there is no prescribed minimum, it is up to the school to propose the syllabus and CASA to approve it). If the school has not yet gone through the process of having a new syllabus approved then they are stuck delivering the old 40 hour course but it still only gets you the G3 unless the FE is benevolent enough to also include the Low Level in another test on the same day. (yes I know it is a bit of a mind F)
Now based on your past experience and RPL (Recognition of prior learning) you may be able to do it in less hours, or because you are a fixed wing guy (and we all know you guys struggle with helicopters!!) it may take more. This is where the competency component of the new system kicks in and is at the discretion of the school to measure that competency against the Part 61 standards.
Once you are competent and have met all the standards and completed the syllabus you are then eligible for a test. On passing the FE will add the G3 (H) training endorsement to your licence. FIR (H) G3.
This G3 allows you to teach any competency required towards the training and issue of a RPL, PPL or CPL, unfortunately it does not mean that you can teach low flying, sling, formation, instrument, night, do type training, Flight reviews, instructor training, design features, MCC etc etc etc. Each one of these now has its own individual syllabus that has to be approved by CASA and requires its own separate test by a suitably qualified Flight Examiner (FE) to be added to your FIR.
So hence the confusion and the massive additional training burden helicopter guys have as we typically do all these things unlike our fixed wing cousins who tend to focus on going multi engine IFR as their end game with only a small percentage needing or wanting other activities used in the agricultural world. (or similar)

As an aside you do not have to gain a G3, G2 or G1 to be a helicopter instructor. You could simply add the low level training endorsement only which means that is all you can teach, that also means you may only be required to do a 5 or 10 hour syllabus and then a test to have that awarded to you. Maybe even less if there is RPL you can apply. IN this case your licence will be endorsed FIR (H) LL.
Another point to consider is that once you have your G3, to upgrade to a G2 or a G1 it is not simply a matter of gaining experience then applying for a test, now there is an additional syllabus of training for each grade that again has to be approved by CASA before you can do the upgrade.

So my question to you is.
What do you want your instructor rating for?? What do you want to teach? What part of the industry do you want to be earning money in??
If you say to me you want to work at a flight school to teach students to fly helicopters then as an employer I would say you need as a minimum a G3 training endorsement plus a low level training endorsement and a Basic instrument training endorsement. (that's three syllabi and three flight tests)
Based on this we look at what you have already done, apply RPL then design a course of training for you and make you an offer on on what the course would look like and how much it would cost.

Once you have answered this question, go find a school and away you go. (unfortunately I would suggest you do not call us as we are busy with other contracts)

I hope this helps. Happy to answer questions on this forum if you have them.
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Eric Hunt
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Re: Fixed wing to Rotary instructor rating conversion

Postby Eric Hunt » Tue Jun 27 2017, 21:40

...and this was the way CA$A simplifies the rules...
The Scarlett Harlot
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Re: Fixed wing to Rotary instructor rating conversion

Postby The Scarlett Harlot » Tue Jun 27 2017, 23:44

Eric Hunt wrote:...and this was the way CA$A simplifies the rules...



.....at no cost to industry.....
stick_monkey
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Re: Fixed wing to Rotary instructor rating conversion

Postby stick_monkey » Wed Jun 28 2017, 04:25

Thank you Mike for taking the time to describe the process in detail. It's been something that I've been considering for a while
ADA87
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Re: Fixed wing to Rotary instructor rating conversion

Postby ADA87 » Sat Sep 30 2017, 14:48

Wow! Sorry for the late reply guys!

Haha! Luckily, I did the rotary CPL first then did the conversion to fixed. Gotta say, I was blown away at how easy fixed wing was!! First solo in 6.2 hours.

And that’s basically the reason why I’m looking at the Heli instructor rating. While flying planes is a pretty cruisy gig, the fun and skill involved is bugger all in comparison to flying rotary. Fixed wing has a lot more opportunity as far as a career goes from what I’ve experienced so far (still only a few years into the career). When I was looking for work at the start I couldn’t get a look in for well over 6 months of trying. So I decided on instructing fixed as there was a lot of opportunity at the time. But the itch to bash around a training area in a Heli is just getting bigger...

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