CRM & WIRE AVOIDANCE TRAINING

[sam 34]

Hi all

Has anyone done the CRM & WIRE AVOIDANCE TRAINING provided by Utilities Aviaton Specialists Inc. ?
(Helicoptersafety.com)

Thanks !

[SuperF]

Yes

[Quick Release]

yes, good coarse.

[sam 34]

& can provide feedback?

[oei]

Sam34,

Information you will be taught will save your life when operating low level , I think that's enough feedback for you

[SuperF]

Lol, really good course to do. I recommend every new pilot to do it, even the old guys will see stuff to make their heart flutter.

[Waka topatopa]

Yes twice now (customer requirement)

First one was presented by Bob Feerst and second by John Fogden. Both were good but found Johns a bit more interesting as he related it a bit more to flying in NZ which I'd imagine would be more similar to flying in Aus than North America.

Some of it does seem to drag on and there were a few head nods going on by mid afternoon but still well worthwhile. Id recommend it for all helicopter pilots. Some great info in there for both CRM and wire and obstruction avoidance. Lunch was included too, always a bonus for a poor helicopter pilot!!

[sam 34]

Thanks guys , I'm an electricial worker who will be spending some time doing aerial electricial inspections this year......

[AHIA]

Essential for crew too!

Best course I have done! Years ago the Department of Primary Industries (Qld) put their 16 aerial shooters through a Robinson Safety Programme.

Why? Because every one in that class had been in a Robinson R22 accident doing low level feral animal control (TB days). About six into water! So they thought if they could know when things were getting difficult for the pilot, then using CRM, maybe they could ensure a better outcome? Which was later proved to be a correct guess, after the accident rate dropped quickly.

A few of their workmates were in cemeteries - the reason for the then radical programme.

One rule was that when the five minute fuel light came on they were to land immediately!!!!! Not go back to the truck for gas!!

Shooter called the game rules. But .............. only a few weeks later .....

One pilot (not a course graduate) refused to act after light came on and insisted in chasing a rogue bull from under a tall gum tree. Argument in cockpit about landing on nearby road. Interrupted by silence, then a crashing noise as they fell down to the ground. At least no gas to burn.

But another RIP.

Do the course and then decide if it will improved your thinking skills.

Secretary@austhia.com

[ozloadie]

This last point on crew CRM is extremely valid and does not get enough attention either in practice or regulation. Needs to improve markedly, not just here but overseas as well. Crew are a valuable resource if they are trained and utilized to the aircraft captain's advantage. After all of the discussions and some adoption of the theory, we have along way to go to get to where we should be.
Steve

[AgRattler]

Just a reminder , you can still hit wires after doing the course!!

[ozloadie]

That circumstance then becomes a post course statistic.
Lets not water down or deflect from the significance of providing an early, broader, more knowledgeable range of observation and passage of information to the aircraft captain.
Who would not do that?
I am not aware of any organization that maintains a wire map or does a wire avoidance course that has had an increase in wire strikes, and that includes the ADF using NVG's at night.
The courses I've been involved in also contain elements of strike survival, because it's not necessarily the strike that is fatal, it can be the post strike actions taken by the pilot. Every hit is different, and like all aviation safety forums, someone's description of their incident may have valuable elements to be utilized in an incident later.
I would think elements of wire cutter kit employment and effectiveness would be contained in the package. Not everyone has an opportunity to learn otherwise or witness this.
S

[muppet]

Landing just a couple of weeks ago, middle of the night, very sick kid, rather poopy weather, poor vis, but remote scene 'secured' by Fire crews. Wires for Africa all around, but strobes sitting happily in the middle of paddock. During low level orbit we noted all the surrounding wires, but couldn't quite work out one odd pole. So, chose a very slow, steep, low ROD approach, crewie out the door, diligent scan with light and wearing NVG and hey presto, right over landing site were the nearly impossible to see missing wires. The most salient point I learned from Bob's 'wire strike' course was "Look for the hardware". That salutary course has since proven its worth many times. Definitely do it.

Extra note - It's true that most / many of these courses are money spinners, but take it with that large grain of salt which will be the thing that saves your life one day.

[ozloadie]

That profile is what we used to call a "walk in", and it's a very smart move. (another reason to maintain white light competency as a redundancy)
The police, ambo's and firefighters on the ground are no where near as aviation educated as they should be, the uniforms don't clear airspace or operating areas, somebody has to look!.
That can be improved, but the question here is which part of your pswot check are you going to not check personally, inbound to a pad?
I know the feelings your crew would have had in the guts and the back of your head when you saw the wires "that shouldn't have been there" (secured?).

There is another facet with keeping up with technology.
In the old days the best advice for wire crossing points was cross at the poles, good advice. However, due to the limited area to mount new technology, the tops of the poles are now being used to mount antennas, cameras, lights, remote devices etc, so now there is a mix of bare top poles and poles fitted with a forest of equipment. And these clustered poles are not marked or lit, you have to eyeball them to determine the avoidance height.

A lot of pilots never fly with a crew and don't realize the real value they provide. Have ago at flying in a crew position other than the front seat and you'll realize how much you can't see and the value of eyes that can move behind you to both sides and behind.
The other side of the coin is put the crew members in the front seat (hangar flight) or the other front seat and let them get an idea of what the pilot's limitations for observation are. This teaches them what is important to look for and what info to pass to the pilot to help him to orientate and journalise the big picture.
Reality is the best training aid.
Steve

[sam 34]

So what you guys are saying is the when flying under a 100 ft next to power lines it's beneficial for my safety & the pilots safety for good communication and good situation awareness?

Thanks for the input! I'll be booking in......

[ozloadie]

Every flight level, altitude and height has something you can run into or it can run into you, all conflictions.
It applies always, it's ok to relax but not to turn off the observation, that's fatal.
S

[Ontheground]

Hi all

Has anyone done the CRM & WIRE AVOIDANCE TRAINING provided by Utilities Aviaton Specialists Inc. ?
(Helicoptersafety.com)

Thanks !

Its is a very worthwhile course.