Nav exam prep questions

[++TopDogg++]

Hey guys, new to the slapper site!
thought I might put a few questions out there..hopefully someone can shed some light....

Q1, A FPT from A to B has 6 & a half 6min markers, (so 39mins from A to B), if the aircraft is running 4 mins late at the second marker how late it be when it arrives at B?

A-4mins
B-8mins
C-13mins
D-25mins.
For the life of me i cannot see a simple way of working this out, maybe im just stressing about this exam that im overlooking something simple??????
the answer is C.
The book says if you are 4 mins late at the second marker, then you are losing 2mins per marker, so 6.5 x 2 is 13, fair enough,but if your four mins late, how are you losing 2 mins per marker, wouldnt you be 4 mins late at every marker there after?

cheers

[kh4]

Surely it is 2min per marker.. 6.5 Markers = 13mins. you also have to remember that you may not always get the exact number you are looking for in the answer. pick the closest..
but looks ok to me..

[Billy Hill]

If you have lost 4 minutes at the second marker you will continue to lose time till the end of the trip unless something changes. This is why you won't be 4 minutes late at the end. By changes I mean less headwind component, increase in airspeed etc, to compensate.

If I want to know whether I will have a headwind component, I only have to take off on a ferry, guaranteed headwind in a 22

BH

[Eric Hunt]

But what if you were just slow getting to altitude and accelerating to cruise speed? You will just be 4 mins late at the end.

Stupid questions.

[++TopDogg++]

I know it dosent say wheather your speed is constant, wind conditions or anything, rather confusing.

[Banjo-Kazooie]

They want you to assume constant wind, constant speed and heading, unless they specifically state otherwise.

The math on these questions shouldn't be too hard, e.g. if you are 2 minutes late at the halfway mark, you will be 4 minutes late at the destination. If you are 2 minutes late when you are 1/4 of the way, you will be 8 minutes late on arrival.

[Billy Hill]

But what if you were just slow getting to altitude and accelerating to cruise speed? You will just be 4 mins late at the end.

Stupid questions.

True Eric, I was trying to help answer the CASA question. As you point out, lots of real life reasons to be ignored to pass the exam though.

[kh4]

Im confused with the markers, half a marker does not make sense, would make more sense to 6 x 6.5min markers

[GOROTOR]

Half a marker is quarter of two markers so that makes half a marker quarter of four minutes... one minute

[SuperF]

Im confused with the markers, half a marker does not make sense, would make more sense to 6 x 6.5min markers

i think that you will find that they use half a marker and have the markers 6 min apart, so that you can get back to base 10 maths.

also assume that everything is constant unless they tell you any different.

[Banjo-Kazooie]

The book says if you are 4 mins late at the second marker, then you are losing 2mins per marker, so 6.5 x 2 is 13, fair enough,but if your four mins late, how are you losing 2 mins per marker, wouldnt you be 4 mins late at every marker there after?

If you are four minutes late at the second marker, you were two minutes late at the first marker. As the book tells you, you are losing two minutes for each marker, so at Marker 3 you are 6 minutes late; at Marker 4 you are 8 minutes late, and so on.

But what if you were just slow getting to altitude and accelerating to cruise speed? You will just be 4 mins late at the end.

I don't see how that makes any difference. -If you were slow in getting to altitude and cruise speed and therefore were 4 minutes late at, say, the halfway mark, maintaining cruise speed would still make you 8 minutes late on arrival. You would need to increase your speed to make up for the time you lost getting to the halfway mark, in order to arrive merely 4 minutes late.

[++TopDogg++]

Thanks guys, it has now become so obvious, quite embarrasing!, ohwell, put it down to stress,
cheers

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Thanks guys, it has now become so obvious, quite embarrasing!, ohwell, put it down to stress,
cheers

We've all been there, dude! It's easy to overthink the questions and end up confusing yourself.

[garly1]

How many Australians does it take to change a light bulb..........?

[cassidy_copter]

TopDogg,


................................No Wind..............................
A.........................78 nautical miles.......................B
..13 nm..13 nm...13 nm....13 nm....13 nm....13 nm
O.........O.........O...........O...........O...........O..........O
..6.5min..6.5min..6.5min..6.5min...6.5min....6.5min
|..........................39 minutes...............................|

Though not given in the question, assume you are flying 120 knots or 120 nautical miles per 60 minutes or 2 nautical miles per minute. Found by Distance / Time.

If it takes 39 minutes from A to B, then the distance must be 78 nautical miles or Time (Minutes) X Speed (Miles per Minute), thus 39 X 2 = 78nm

The distance between each marker must be 13 nm and 6.5 minutes between each, in No Wind.

But, you obviously have a headwind.

You have travel 26nm in 17minutes. Which is clearly not your Flight Planned 2 nautical miles per minute, otherwise you would be at the second marker in 13 minutes.

26 / 17 = 1.5294118 That is Distance / Time = Speed or Nautical Miles / Minutes = Nautical Miles/Minute

Take 1.5294118 X 60 = 91.764706 Knots (Nautical Miles/Hour)

(78nm/120knots) X 60 = 39 and (78nm/91.764706knots) X 60 = 51

51 - 39 = 12 extra minutes to cover 78 nm

Pick the closest answer.

Now then, you could have taken shortcuts in the conversion, but this easily demonstrates the thought process required.

It is telling you that you have a (120 – 91.764706 =) 28.24 knots unforecast Headwind Component

Hope you will have enough fuel to reach your destination. That is the bottom line situational awareness.

[michaelking42]

How many Australians does it take to change a light bulb..........?

I think only one. But first you need a bunch of regulaters to make laws on how to do it, another bunch of lawyers to interpret and interpolate those laws, an authority to examine and license people to do it, someone else to provide training and a certificate to prove you speak english to level 4, then a ladder operator's permit, an AVID or an ASIC, and don't forget to pay CASA $75 'processing fee'...and you're all set. No wait, in all the confusion we've forgotten the light bulb needs replacing.

[garly1]

How many Australians does it take to change a light bulb..........?

I think only one. But first you need a bunch of regulaters to make laws on how to do it, another bunch of lawyers to interpret and interpolate those laws, an authority to examine and license people to do it, someone else to provide training and a certificate to prove you speak english to level 4, then a ladder operator's permit, an AVID or an ASIC, and don't forget to pay CASA $75 'processing fee'...and you're all set. No wait, in all the confusion we've forgotten the light bulb needs replacing.

in all the confusion a kiwi will come over and do it......

[Banjo-Kazooie]

51 - 39 = 12 extra minutes to cover 78 nm

I worked it out as being 52 minutes in total, which gives a bang-on answer of 13 minutes late. - The problem posed was based on six-and-a-half six minute markers (i.e. 6+6+6+6+6+6+3), not six six-and-a-half-minute markers(i.e. 6.5+6.5+6.5+6.5+6.5+6.5), which I think accounts for the difference in our answers.

[cassidy_copter]

Thanks Banjo . . .

Q1, A FPT from A to B has6 & a half 6min markers,

Right you are.

The Queens English is not my first language.

The first question I had, when reading Q1, was, "What the funk is an FPT?"

The second question I had, when reading Q1, was, "What markers is the question writer referring to . . . Marker Beacons?, Highway Mile Markers?, identifiable points on a VFR chart that relate to readily identifiable points on the ground? . . . What?" Who flies that way anyway, except to relate a VFR chart or map to points on the ground, backed up by some navaid or GPS? Is the Exam writer or the person who wrote that question a pilot, at all?

6 minute markers?

I appreciate the points the question writer was trying to make . . . Checking math skills, checking to evaluate if the reader appreciates he has a substantial headwind component that will adversely affect his arrival time, checking to evaluate the reader's understanding that he may have insufficient fuel, checking to evaluate the reader's situational awareness . . . All that said, the question could have been written better and better related to actual flying. Such as distance and time between landmarks plotted on your VFR chart against the time you are actually making over the ground.

Now then, imagine if one of our newest Australians, say from the Sudan, has dreams to become a pilot and sitting this exam. Interpreting the use of the Queen's English, the wording of exam questions, and the lack of any practical application in day-to-day flying, or based on methods used decades ago, were my biggest frustrations.

Yes, I passed all examinations on the first go with pretty decent scores, BUT . . . I walked away from each with the thought, What complete bullish!t."

My last excuse for being 1 minute off is, I read this and replied to it after a glass of wine, around 20:00. Therefore, be sure you have a good strong cup of tea or coffee and consume no alcohol 24 hours prior to sitting the exam. Be sure to sit the exam, during the part of the day (during hours of operation for the exam site) that you feel the sharpest. If you are a early morning person, sit the exam, as soon as the doors open. If you are an afternoon person, sit the exam then. I recall when I sat my exams, I would do more than one, during the day I scheduled.

Regardless 12 minutes or 13 minutes, splitting hairs . . . the mathematical logic is correct. The situational awareness points I made are still valid.

[kh4]

Hey CC i'm with you, to me, a marker is a leg, and you cant have half a leg, you can certainly have one leg shorty than the other 6, so i go back to my earlier post, "would make more sense to say 6 x 6.5min markers/legs" bring the answer to 12
and the FPT i take it was RPT.. typo