VET FEE HELP??

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ChicoCheco
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Re: VET FEE HELP??

Postby ChicoCheco » Sun Apr 5 2015, 10:54

In 2015, the FEE‑HELP limit is $97,728 for most students

That does not include 25% on top for arranging/processing the loan. :roll:

I can't see why 100/105hr heli CPL cannot be included even with the Cert IV structure/units to tick boxes (purely based on shuffling paperwork, not market or bigger picture). If fixed wing guys can use it and it's been done on rotary side, but not for ab-initio CPL.. FTA Adelaide don't do VET FEE-HELP for ab-initio CPL(H) with Cert IV, priced at 85k AUD. :o

Airways Aviation (ex-Chopperline) *may* get the VET FEE HELP approval/authorisation, from what I was told in person. Since it's fixed fleet operator/school, who knows what it'd include. Should be cheaper than FTA, too.

Personally, it'd be disaster akin to NZ where it created more pressure on junior jobs and wasted government money on those who 'fancied' it but didn't try hard enough and dropped out or didn't seek jobs too much/relocating for job etc. It'd also further disadvantage small schools, which already have enough to deal with due Part 61/142 if not closing down in near future in first place.
Ag-Fire
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Re: VET FEE HELP??

Postby Ag-Fire » Sun Apr 5 2015, 21:50

Here's an idea, WORK hard SAVE your money and just pay for your licence like the other 99% of us have done. Rotorpilot you started this thread back in 2011 and your still looking for an easy ride!! I guess it shows your commitment to the industry.

Just my frustrated two cents worth. )c/

Cheers

Ag
ChicoCheco
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Re: VET FEE HELP??

Postby ChicoCheco » Mon Apr 6 2015, 11:12

So, paying expensive car or house outright, shows better commitment?
If something's out of reach due economy/costs/one's financial situation, what's the threshold dividing lazy and smart? How long should it take to save up not to look silly changing career taking, say 5-10 years, fraught with risks and job insecurity initially afterwards?

I'm not pro-loans per se (would have been more inclined couple years ago, but don't have right nationality anyway), but bundling all people under one label/group, who decided it's better to start career rather than slave for years, just isn't logical.

Nor is saying 99% of trained heli pilots had to save for it. Some got property, some were military trained.

I even read past statements of some Kiwi company chiefs/instructors saying they'd not hire someone using govt loan for training. Blanket bias, indeed.
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Re: VET FEE HELP??

Postby Rotorpilot » Mon Apr 6 2015, 13:06

Look I can see Ag-fires point, I mean as if I would let a little thing like life eg marriage, honeymoon and General living and expenses get in the way of my future career, my mum and dad arnt in the position to pay for my career like others :roll: God for bid a future helicopter pilot ask for the same fair go as any other fixed wing, architect , lawyer or doctor or any other person who is offered HEC's or vet fee help. When someone's job is threatened why wouldn't you react like that. It's fine though buddy, I now have got to the point now where I'm in the position to pay for myself though CPL. but It would be good as times have changed to get some up skilling or assistance with endorsements or certs. to put me into a position to compete with the current changes with CASA and old school (got to earn your stripes) mentality the a majority on this forum complain about. Don't get me wrong safety and knowing your industry/skills/profession is paramount as lives are a stake, so the highest of skills and experience should be gained, but who's to say that me borrowing the money to get there is going to make me any less of a professional than yourself? That is questionable.
If you have a problem go tell someone who gives a flying fluff. Like your mirror or mum :lol:

Sorry to bring a negative tone to finish but douche comments for anti anyone other than old school or mummy and daddy support tossers can enjoy their own company to put it nicely. If you put yourself through it cudos to you and I'll soon be joining you.

As for anyone who has anything positive to add or any info on the topic that this post is headed with we are all ears.
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AHIA
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Re: VET FEE HELP??

Postby AHIA » Sat Apr 11 2015, 05:10

Future of VET debate.

AHIA has been doing more research on this topic, and this has been discussed in the latest AHIA Quarterly Report. Need a copy - secretary@aushia.com. it is a freebie.

To get VET help in any form the school has to be an RTO.
RTOs are authorised iaw TLSIC competencies via national skills council (not CASA).
This means a type Part 142 school.
At present no Part 142 schools exist.
AHIA is working hard with CASA and key players to somehow unwind the requirements of a 142 school.
We are kind of bogged down at present; despite CASA's best of intentions.
The report outlines this problem in more detail. Qualifying 142 staff and testing folks is clearly a long way off.
One CASA guess was around 18 Months at the earliest.

SO ....... just read up on our findings and you will see how we are stuck in the mud; until we all can push in the same direction and sort out the details.

Part 61 is still 'work in progress'.

AHIA
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Re: VET FEE HELP??

Postby AHIA » Sat Apr 11 2015, 07:09

Options for a Part 141 or a Part 142 school?

AHIA claims the Part 142
School is the problem!

CASA in good faith tried to make the training industry more efficient by allowing a school conducting basic VFR, single engine helicopter courses to go without some of the required administrative and regulatory overheads. The idea of not requiring an AOC; but rather a Certificate seemed a good decision at the time.

But the jury is still out on a few contentious issues such as the cost differences between the 150 hour course at a 141 school with fewer CASA required overheads; or a shorter 100 hour course at an organisation which requires substantial funds to meet the AOC requirements, including extra staff and equipment.

In the past, it has been a nightmare trying to calculate costs of running either type of school. However, CASA have just released their updated list of costs and fees for industry. The shortages of ATO/FE seems a dark cloud on the horizon, now being ignored by most; but getting a testing officer from Hobart to do a test in Darwin has obvious downsides – and how do we communicate this possible test blowout cost to a student who only has a limited and fixed budget?

Experts agree that when the integrated theory is moulded into the practical training as per the proposed 142 model, there will be problems. According to CASA there are no Part 142 helicopter schools in Australia as the application process is very complex and final guidance on running parallel ground and flight training for helicopters courses is yet to be written. As an aside, it appears this model has never been a success anywhere in global civilian helicopter communities.

Helicopter schools are usually small, with varied entry standards for their clients.

At present CASA’s concept is a Part 141 school can run basic courses up to commercial license standard; all other advanced training must be done in a Part 142 school which will have an AOC, with more detailed and complex exposition and extra staff for the AOC needs.

Part 142 schools provide essential resources to feed all the higher level training activities.

If no 142 schools exist, a collapse of the testing capability of our industry will occur, creating a need for overseas courses – bankrupting local trainers.

AHIA has brought this to the attention of CASA staff; now very busy designing, drafting and seeking approval for their numerous EASA focussed CASRs. However, there are three serious examples of this problem:

You get a job flying a heavy helicopter. You will need to attend a multi-crew cooperation training (MCC) course for multi-crew helicopters which is effective 1 September 2015. CASA has advised few (if any) MCC training facilities exist at present. No applications to run an MCC can be processed as there is a lack of Part 142 schools needed for MCC administration and staff training processes. Should we be seeking overseas staff?

You need an ATPL license. A major concern is the MCC Certificate it is needed for the issue of an ATPL(H), it is alleged none have been issued since November 2014. One expert in this field thought it would take at least 18 month for CASA to fix this problem. What will the international community think about our inability to issue ATPLs for both aeroplanes and helicopters for around two years?

Testing officers’ approvals. The CASA Flight Examiners Handbook was authorised on 28 November 2014. The approval and renewal of helicopter ATO and FTE qualifications rely on the resources of a Part 142 school. (None at present?) However, CASA, to ease this legislative problem, has issued instruments to allow existing testing officers to continue until 30 June 2016.

And then who tests the ‘testers’; if ‘testers’ cannot use a 142 school to become qualified and current?

Hope this helps?

AHIA
Guy Incognito
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Re: VET FEE HELP??

Postby Guy Incognito » Sat Apr 11 2015, 12:06

Here's a tip for you Rotorpilot, save your money mate.
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truthinbeer
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Re: VET FEE HELP??

Postby truthinbeer » Sat Apr 11 2015, 23:50

Rotorpilot, don't attack and bully others because they do not agree with your views.
NatoVP
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Re: VET FEE HELP??

Postby NatoVP » Wed Nov 23 2016, 14:27

Hi All,

I know this is a rather old post now, however here is some information I am aware of.

Flight Training Adelaide offer currently a program under VET-Fee help for CPL-H they provide this with a diploma in aviation(helicopter) or Fixed wing if you want to know other options. The course is an intensive 41 week course (monday to friday 8:00-4:30). It includes all of the CASA required subjects in ground school and I believe 135 approx flying hours. This program has only just been approved by the government in the last year.

The proposed changes however to the VET-Fee program being currently pushed through parliament now means that the current format will be cancelled in 2017. (not a big window for anyone interested) The proposed change will allow future pilots a threshold of up to $75,000 for aviation related courses approved by the VET-Fee program and the Approved providers are still being decided. Providing that the individual has under the 99,000 Vet-Fee cap you can obtain your CPL-H on this program. the 99,000 cap is the maximum limit allowed per individual, period! Even though the allocation is upto 75,000 per aviation course. say if you had 30,000 in accumulated VET-Fee debt already you would not be able to complete the full CPL-H under VET-Fee and would need to pay the remaining required personally. Please note that a 20% loan fee is added to your debt total for the VET-Fee help.

A few people seem a touch jaded that future pilots are being given a hand to achieve their licence, and it is definitely commendable that all of those that did it on their own backs managed to do it without assistance. I personally am on the VET-Fee program and will say that individual circumstance does not always allow for some to raise the funds. I am very grateful for the opportunity to complete my licence in this manner.

In Summary FTA currently offer a program, VET-Fee help is available but changes to the program may lead to a cut in funding or approval for future VET-Fee help past January 2017

Regards
Nathan
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Re: VET FEE HELP??

Postby Hueyman » Sat Nov 26 2016, 15:03

Sorry they only give you 15k now and that's not even enough to let the flight schools open the front door for you let alone say hello.
Oh wait they will if you have I money to spend but then once that's gone so is their enthusiasm.
My word of advice. Only get your license if you have more $ to spend on more flight time after you get your license 70k + unless you either own a chopper or have a friend or who someone you know with one that will lend it to you. Everyone is your best friend when you have something to give or untill you want something, the same is said for everything don't mistake this.
Don't go to NZ and get the school bonus. Don't go to mummy and daddy and don't got to VET FEE help. grow some get a job and work towards your goals
Be your own person.
I know of a guy that ent to NZ got his licence for free then left with out repaying it. Yes it says a lot about a person that does that. But he is hired in a flying gig and does some ground crew work too. Just goes to show you that can be a dick and get a job flying.(this is not my advice) lol
charlie don't surf! (c:_ol
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Re: VET FEE HELP??

Postby Niko » Mon Nov 28 2016, 00:51

What Nathan posted is 100% factually correct. The cap for aviation is $75k; not the 15K that was posted by Hueyman

In the last 12 months all of my CPL students got jobs - without the additional flying

In the 12 months previous to that, not so much. Many people who 'deserved' a job did not get one; life is unfair, and this happens everywhere

A lot depends on other factors than just your training. For the most it's the economy, luck and the opportunities you will gain from 'knowing the right people'. It's not a full mediocracy and I doubt will ever come close

Weigh up the risks and opportunities, the whole point of this system is for you to gain qualifications and then employment. This may or may not happen. But! Don't let the ramblings of some guy on the internet tell you what you must do when clearly there are many pathways set out. Unfortunately you will only know with certainty in retrospect, but such is life

Good luck

Hueyman wrote:Sorry they only give you 15k now and that's not even enough to let the
flight schools open the front door for you let alone say hello.
Oh wait they will if you have I money to spend but then once that's gone so is their enthusiasm.
My word of advice. Only get your license if you have more $ to spend on more flight time after you get your license 70k + unless you either own a chopper or have a friend or who someone you know with one that will lend it to you. Everyone is your best friend when you have something to give or untill you want something, the same is said for everything don't mistake this.
Don't go to NZ and get the school bonus. Don't go to mummy and daddy and don't got to VET FEE help. grow some get a job and work towards your goals
Be your own person.
I know of a guy that ent to NZ got his licence for free then left with out repaying it. Yes it says a lot about a person that does that. But he is hired in a flying gig and does some ground crew work too. Just goes to show you that can be a dick and get a job flying.(this is not my advice) lol
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b3n.n3lson
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Re: VET FEE HELP??

Postby b3n.n3lson » Mon Nov 28 2016, 01:07

Niko wrote:What Nathan posted is 100% factually correct. The cap for aviation is $75k; not the 15K that was posted by Hueyman

In the last 12 months all of my CPL students got jobs - without the additional flying

In the 12 months previous to that, not so much. Many people who 'deserved' a job did not get one; life is unfair, and this happens everywhere

A lot depends on other factors than just your training. For the most it's the economy, luck and the opportunities you will gain from 'knowing the right people'. It's not a full mediocracy and I doubt will ever come close

Weigh up the risks and opportunities, the whole point of this system is for you to gain qualifications and then employment. This may or may not happen. But! Don't let the ramblings of some guy on the internet tell you what you must do when clearly there are many pathways set out. Unfortunately you will only know with certainty in retrospect, but such is life

Good luck

Hueyman wrote:Sorry they only give you 15k now and that's not even enough to let the
flight schools open the front door for you let alone say hello.
Oh wait they will if you have I money to spend but then once that's gone so is their enthusiasm.
My word of advice. Only get your license if you have more $ to spend on more flight time after you get your license 70k + unless you either own a chopper or have a friend or who someone you know with one that will lend it to you. Everyone is your best friend when you have something to give or untill you want something, the same is said for everything don't mistake this.
Don't go to NZ and get the school bonus. Don't go to mummy and daddy and don't got to VET FEE help. grow some get a job and work towards your goals
Be your own person.
I know of a guy that ent to NZ got his licence for free then left with out repaying it. Yes it says a lot about a person that does that. But he is hired in a flying gig and does some ground crew work too. Just goes to show you that can be a dick and get a job flying.(this is not my advice) lol


Niko,

The $75k Cap for Aviation, is this applicable to course in 2017? If so, where can I find a reference?

The references I have found to date state a 15k limit, so I would really appreciate your assistance.
Ben

When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return !
Niko
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Re: VET FEE HELP??

Postby Niko » Mon Nov 28 2016, 03:12

Sure, The updated list for 2017

https://docs.education.gov.au/system/fi ... e_list.pdf

Yes what I said is current for the new 2017- legislation
Government has reduced the amount of money a person can borrow for the aviation courses. But as you can see we're exempt from the 15k cap
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KOALA
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Re: VET FEE HELP??

Postby KOALA » Mon Nov 28 2016, 03:57

Hi Mate,

Can you point me in the right direction for which schools will let you undertake this training with them?

Would be interested in touching base with them and discussing possible opportunities with them next year.

Thanks in advance :D
A young, aspiring pilot 8)
bl@ckers
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Re: VET FEE HELP??

Postby bl@ckers » Mon Nov 28 2016, 04:17

I believe there are only 2 in the country, Air Work Helicopters in Caboolture and FTA in Adelaide.
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Re: VET FEE HELP??

Postby KOALA » Mon Nov 28 2016, 04:31

bl@ckers wrote:I believe there are only 2 in the country, Air Work Helicopters in Caboolture and FTA in Adelaide.


Awesome Thanks mate. Can't seem to get onto Air work's website, but will try FTA.

Does anyone have any further on this??
A young, aspiring pilot 8)
wotyaup2
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Re: VET FEE HELP??

Postby wotyaup2 » Tue Nov 29 2016, 04:53

I hear Heli West do this on behalf of Plolytech West Australia in Perth

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