Biennial Flight Review/Sling Rating

[choppersteve]

Can anyone tell me if a sling endorsement can count as a biennial flight review?

Cheers,

CS

[Master Cylinder]

Have a read of the following CAAP...all the goodies on BFR's are contained herein. This applies to all of us as we all need to do one of these every two years...worth knowing what the rules are before you get in the aircraft.

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/caaps/ops/5_81_1.pdf

Just a specific point which might answer your question...

7.1 Any licensed aeroplane or helicopter pilot, or commercial balloon pilot may substitute a flight review, if, within a period of two years before the proposed flight, they have:
• passed a flight test for the purpose of the issue of a licence,
or issue or renewal of a pilot rating;
• satisfactorily completed a proficiency check and the
conducting organisation has made an entry to that effect in
the pilot’s log-book; or
• satisfactorily completed aeroplane, helicopter or balloon
conversion training conducted by the holder of a grade of
instructor rating that allows them to conduct a flight review.

This specifically says that if you do a rating, that it should count, however if it were me, I'd ask the person doing the training if they're willing to sign off a BFR as well as doing the sling endorsement.

Hope this helps.

MC

[bladepitch]

If your going to do a BFR always get something for it. rating or endorsement. type endorsments or Ratings easily count as most of these put you through your paces getting up to speed.
However i dont know to many schools that during sling training chop the throttle in flight or in the hover with the load attached and get you to demonstrate the appropriate technique for a safe landing.
(which requires you to release the load)

A sling endorsement is proficiency based, no time limit. so if your really good you can cover the basic skills in a few hours. ( and i mean BASIC !!!)

There are 6 elements in the day VFR syllabus for sling

Element 6: Manage Abnormal and emergency situations during sling flight.

Performance Criteria: Manage Abnormal and emergency situations in accordance with the standard operating procedures or Flight Manual/POH.

YES it can technically count if you go by the syllabus as you need to demonstrate Emergency procedures.

As to get it signed off... thats the call of the instructor doing it !

[helothere]

Nit picking here but don't the regs for waiving the BFR apply to ratings (EG instrument rating, instructor rating), as opposed to endorsements (EG sling endorsement, low level endorsement) or am I misinterpreting the rules? Wouldn't be the first time!

[bladepitch]

good point

my interpretation would be that if the BFR syllabus is covered during the trainging of an endorsment would that not allow the instructor to sign off on the BFR.

i think i better hit the regs a bit more .............

[pohm1]

From memory, it must also be entered into the logbook as a BFR, not just a sling rating or endorsement etc.
P1

[flyAS350]

You can do a endorsment and us it as a BFR only if the instructor is a grade 1 and they are willing to do both at the same time.

[skypig]

I believe you are right Helothere.
A “rating” involves a test and needs to be renewed. An endorsement is a “proficiency” and as flyAS350 states, does not automatically count as a BFR (and in fact can’t count as a BFR if not done by a grade 1).

[hand in pants]

Most of the above are correct, but for a rating/endorsement to count it must be done by a Grade One and entered into the body of the logbook.
You cant't just use the sticky strip as proof of the BFR.

[CYHeli]

The CAAP that MC has posted the link to answers most questions.

It is interesting to read that if a CPL/ATPL holder does a BFR they can log the time as ICUS, because they are not learning something new, only reviewing what they already know or can do.
I applied this last year to a check ride in an R22. Looks funny in the log book to have ICUS in a '22.

Unfortunately it was a company check ride and the boss didn't hold a grade one, so I still need to do a BFR at some stage.
If you were training for a new rating/endorsement as part of the BFR, then it would be dual time.

[choppersteve]

Thanks very much to all for your input. Sounds like it might be worth a new type conversion.

CS

[Friendly Black Dog]

Hey Mr. HIP,

Doesn't para. 14.1 of the CAAP cover the sticky strip question pretty definatively?

Notwithstanding the previous sentences, it is
not mandatory to make an entry in the pilot’s log-book for a rating
issue or renewal or conversion training, other than the appropriate
sticky strip.

Another question. If you work for a CAR 217 approved operator where do you stand? EG: do you still need a BFR?

Probably covered under the "proficiency check" dot point. Do you need a BFR to do other casual work outside the 217 operator? What if the check pilot approved under the 217 orgaisation is not an instructor?

I must have to much time on my hands?

FBD

[hand in pants]

FBD, yeah, you are right on the money, but as far as I'm concerned a caap is only "advisory". So to cover my considerable bum, I put it in the body of the logbook.
Personally, I don't take much from CAAPs, some are handy and some are complete rubbish. The NVFR is a classic written for aeroplanes by someone who doesn't fly helicopters.

[Underdog]

As per CAR's 5.124, a BFR may be substituted by either a "Flight test" for a Flight Crew licence, or renewal of a Rating, whether that is either an Instrument Rating or Instructor Rating. "

It may also be substituted by doing Conversion Training, otherwise known as Type/Class endorsement. However a sling endorsement doesn't come under Conversion Training, tho it is an endorsement and so wouldn't count as a BFR. Additionally Conversion Training as outlined in CAO 40.3.0 has a prescribed number of hours to achieve, where as sling endorsement doesn't. It may be another reason why CASA would not recognise sling endorsements as a substitute for BFR's.

A Proficency check would also be acceptable as evidence for a BFR if conducted by an approved person and an entry made in the candidates Logbook to the same. This requirement for a logbook entry in mandatory for doing a straight up BFR and when being substituted by a proficency check only. However it wouldn't be wasted ink to make the additional entry as described by HIP.

It's also worth noting as stated by previous posts that the "Approved Person" in the case of an Instructor, must be a Grade 1 Flight Instructor who is qualified and is either employed with or working under a flight school Operators AOC. This also means that the Instructor must have completed a proficency check with the CFI within the previous 12 months to be current. So it's not enough that your Instructors rating is current.

Remember that the owness will always fall back upon the individual to prove innocence where CASA are concerned when they quote "Strick Liability"

I hope that the above is of some additional help.

As always,

Underdog